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DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

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Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#351

Post by dylan604 »

whatever1 wrote: post #297
gitaarik wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, we learned that trick from Biden. But when Biden does it then there's no problem with it.

Who said that it is not problematic for Biden to pardon his son? However, if you put them on a scale blanket pardoning the mob who stormed the capitol, attacked and injured police officers, threatened congress members, planted bombs and were looking to hang the Vice president because he would not overturn the election results where do you think it will lean towards? The one is bad optics the other is literally giving…

> where do you think it will lean towards?

Depends on who/when any of these theoretical charges occur. If they were to happen now-ish, then Biden would be thrown under the bus. Which I'm assuming is the opposite response to what you're trying to apply rational reasoning to. I think for at least the remainder of the next four years, applying rational reasoning will be a fool's errand.

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#352

Post by toomuchtodo »

hintymad wrote: post #342
voxic11 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USDS wasn't established by Congress, it was established by Obama via Presidential memoranda and OMB budget request.

Thanks! I knew that Obama created the USDS, but I thought he still needed the support from Congress. Well then, in that case I'm not sure why Trump would rather repurpose the USDS. Maybe it's easier to set up a temporary entity for DOGE that way?

It is in the same way you would assume an existing admin role to perform the highly privileged actions you want to take vs attempting to bootstrap access from scratch.

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#353

Post by nitwit005 »

randallsquared wrote: post #153
darth_avocado wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DOGE is not illegal. However the legality of some of the things they do is under question. The current government, including DOGE is being operated like “Just do as many things as possible, so that the lawsuits can’t keep up”. While lawyers are busy trying to stop big things, many small but important items will slip through the cracks and will take decades to undo. Edit: BTW this strategy has always been available, i…

> it’s just that career politicians aren’t incentivized to do this for “good” because they want long political careers. That's not why: Reagan, Clinton, W, and Obama all had the opportunity for sweeping changes of this magnitude without regard to further political careers, but none of them wanted to make radical changes. Their view of the US government (even Reagan's!) was "basically doing a good job, but maybe needs…

The presidents aren't kings. They need congressional support to get anything major done. They rarely support sweeping changes.

And more recently, congress essentially won't do anything, period. Either because the president is not of their party, or more recently, chaos within the Republican party itself.

Which is why you see presidents trying to do things with executive orders, but typically the courts (correctly) block overreach there. Trump is busy accumulating court rulings against his administration.

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#354

Post by ty6853 »

llamaimperative wrote: post #343
ty6853 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument 'but the right dismantling the shadow left, and the left dismantling the shadow right hopefully provides some balance' is merely a symmetric balance principle. The person pretending to ask questions used an underhanded socratic method to assert what was happening about line-by-line and then demanded analog for their own premise as if it were mine instead of theirs. Youve fallen for a trick.

I asked for evidence of your claim of symmetric behavior. You just sent everyone on a wild goose chase instead of saying “I don’t have any.”

My claim is that symmetric behavior is balanced. You went on the goose chase dismissing the first example of your entirely different demand, then pretended I never said it. Your argument is a disingenuous fraud.

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#355

Post by llamaimperative »

ty6853 wrote: post #354
llamaimperative wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked for evidence of your claim of symmetric behavior. You just sent everyone on a wild goose chase instead of saying “I don’t have any.”

My claim is that symmetric behavior is balanced. You went on the goose chase dismissing the first example of your entirely different demand, then pretended I never said it. Your argument is a disingenuous fraud.

Oh okay, your statement is just "if the left did this same thing, then they'd be doing the same thing?"

Alright, no complaints there. Thanks for your insight.

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#356

Post by ty6853 »

llamaimperative wrote: post #340
ty6853 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't said it was analogous though, it was your invented demand.

You suggested that the right is currently doing to the left what the left does to the right… Great evidence! Thanks!

Im suggesting doing different non-analogous things can provide balance. At no point did I assert they must be analogous nor am I obliged to prove your own assumptions.

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#357

Post by torginus »

squigz wrote: post #320
torginus wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IRC used to work like I described, and it had no trouble talking to strangers. Websites are usually hosted on machines the owner controls, running software the owner controls, yet have no trouble talking to the external world.

> IRC used to work like I described, and it had no trouble talking to strangers. Except for the server, which is usually run on a box you don't control. > Websites are usually hosted on machines the owner controls, running software the owner controls, yet have no trouble talking to the external world. Most websites are absolutely not ran on machines the owner controls...

But the important thing is in both cases, I have the option of running it like that, if security is important to me.

In the case of Slack, Discord or Teams I have to implicitly trust the mothership.

In a world where all these companies are eager to hide clauses that allow them to train on your data, and where controversies pop up where Tesla employees share your in-car camera videos among each other, I'd rather have a product where I can limit who I need to trust, especially if I'm running something as sensitive as a government agency.

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#358

Post by spwa4 »

whatever1 wrote: post #172
dangus wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there is “unseeing.” They can be tried for rather obvious crimes and thrown in prison.

They will get a blanket pardon anyway. So in the end we will have to apologize to them.

Actually states can arrest them for any non-federal crime, punish them and incarcerate them and there is nothing Trump can do about it.

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#359

Post by UncleMeat »

ty6853 wrote: post #333
UncleMeat wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if this were Congress passing a budget then people would be upset but wouldn't be calling it illegal. There's a huge difference between Congress passing a budget (within its constitutional powers) and the Executive just killing anything and everything that seems "woke" them with no legislative authorization.

My assertion was 'the right dismantling the shadow left, and the left dismantling the shadow right hopefully provides some balance.' Not that they do it in identical ways, nor analogous ways. The demand for an analogy was a strawman predicated on such. I'm open to the idea both sides have done it lawfully and/or unlawfully.

The unlawfulness is the part that is newsworthy and incredibly frightening. That's the part that matters.

If the executive can unilaterally decide to allocate funds to wherever it wants while ignoring Congress, then Congress is no a coequal branch and our constitutional order is dead.

Re: DOGE employees ordered to stop using Slack

#360

Post by slashdev »

affinepplan wrote: post #323
slashdev wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not power. That's information access, and yes, they are getting that, and that's not unexpected either. How else would they do their job?

Knowledge is power

You’re moving the goal posts of this conversation by redefining the word power.

My point stands.

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