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Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

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341–350 of 777 posts

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of Trump, never attribute to ineptitude what can be explained by greed. He is tanking the US economy so he and his billionaire cohort can buy things (businesses, real estate, stocks, etc) at a low price. Thus amassing more control and capital. This is how the Russian oligarchy came into power.

Trump's businesses have repeatedly declared bankruptcy. Don't rule out ineptitude.

He bankrupted a casino. I’m not sure how you even manage to do that.

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#343
post #310

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I think that's the nuclear option, at least for China.

Aren't these kinds of services already largely banned in China?

Yes, and that’s always mysteriously forgotten in these conversations.

Historically, China stole US IP and software, like Windows, en masse. Now they refuse to import our main export product — software — while we import their physical products and software like TikTok.

If we were allowed to export our services to China in exchange, this would be a very different geopolitical moment.

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#344

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This. There is no reason why any country should trust us anymore if entire trade relations can be destroyed by a presidential whim. Even if Trump fell out of a window today and we got a pro-trade president tomorrow, we’re not fixing this damage for a very long time. We probably would have to amend the constitution to insulate foreign policy from the whims of a single person if we want any chance of fixing this in our…

Passing law that removes tariff authority from the president would be a good start to rebuilding trust.

The rest of the world would still be at the mercy of an untrustworthy government that is largely incapable of any semblance of long term thinking. To say nothing of the weirdos who regularly vote for that government and who they tend to elect.

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#345
post #10

You know the craziest thing about watching this as an outsider in Canada is that we as a nation are losing one reliable trading partner (and obviously losing an ally but that's another conversation). Germany - losing a trade partner. Japan? And so on. But the US has lost 180 reliable trading partners. You're already seeing in the first week burgeoning trade alliances between nations who wouldn't have cooperated befor…

4D chess is an absurd notion when you consider the actors involved. Only malice and incompetence are credible theories.

When the markets are down, they are on sale for the rich. Eliminating competition via tariffs is good for those who want to compete where they couldn't before. They would let everything burn to further enrich themselves or push their ideology.

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#346
A simple but profound idea that has stuck with me from the days when I religiously listened to The Macro Tourist's podcast: who's on the other side of the trade? In order for AAPL to drop 7% today, someone of course had to agree to sell their shares at a price that is 7% lower than yesterday's. But perhaps more interesting, someone else agreed to buy the shares at that price. Who's buying here and who's selling? Who's more composed? What is the investment timeframe of the seller versus the buyer?

It takes two to make a market.

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#347
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next president is going to be Trump. If people don't think that's at least a serious possibity they are extremely deluded about the situation the country is in right now.

We have repeatedly seen Trump say something that sounds ridiculous, and his supporters say "that won't actually happen, and if it does I won't support it", and then he does it and his supporters support it. He has recently said he may try for another term as president, and confirmed "No, no I'm not joking". If you don't take his threats seriously by now, and the willingness of the GOP to get behind whatever he wants,…

> We have repeatedly seen Trump say something that sounds ridiculous, and his supporters say "that won't actually happen, and if it does I won't support it", and then he does it and his supporters support it.

Any examples?

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trump is crashing the T-note yield to refinance $9T (which is how much US debt is going to mature in 2025) at a lower rate Even if this were intended (unlikely), destroying $6T of notional stock market value so far to save $270b/yr of interest (if 10-year yields drop by 3%, which hasn't happened yet ) is a bad trade.

National stock market is owned by people, but the national debt is owned (and has to be payed) by the government. Basically, the government is just milking the reach now to lower gov's national debt. Poorer people rather win from this (even if no manufacturers come to U.S. to avoid tariff barriers, which some manufacturers will and which will be another small benefit for the poorer (more jobs)).

Tariffs are incredibly regressive, add in the likely job losses and wage losses, and poorer people are going to be the biggest losers.

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm tempted to think (hope? dream?) that the markets and trade will rebound if all this chaos makes American politics swing back The pump'n'dump scheme against Ukraine will forever change how small countries see the US support for democracy, even if it changes back to the previous status-quo.

In the end, countries are nuanced enough to understand American political dynamics. They see Orbans, they see Le Pens, they see Trump, and they know what is behind it. I am quite sure that Ukraine did not expect anything else from the Trump faction of the Republican party. His victory was not unlikely and he is a simple creature. If different factions win, they will be eager to work with America again, with less trus…

> It will make Americans generationally poorer, but the world will be better off for it.

The world will become more resilient, but this could easily be a lose-lose for USA and other democratic nations.

Re: Trump's Tariffs Wipe Out over $6T on Wall Street in Epic Two-Day Rout

#350
post #198
post #8

This is an inherently political subject, but I would appreciate a dispassionate argument explaining how this could be even remotely good for the U.S.'s economy in a way that is light on MAGA ideology and doesn't simply claim the overwhelming majority of economists are dumb. I'm simply not seeing even a glimmer of a possible upside right now. I see even less possibility of an upside for those of us North of the border…

To lay out my own biases - I voted for Trump but do not consider myself a strong supporter (I saw it much more of a vote for who you dislike less sort of situation) - I don't understand and am not supportive of the approach on Tariffs - I am an active participate in what most here would consider right wing politics although I don't find myself aligning on every topic (e.g. I am supportive of the abortion laws in Cali…

Thanks for illuminating the mindset.

One thing I want to say in support:

The argument in favour of free trade is that it increases the pie, so that everyone can be better off (a Pareto improvement). However, given that trade does produce winners and losers, this argument is predicated on redistribution, namely (over)compensating the losers.

That second part of the argument in favour of free trade is often conveniently forgotten. So when that redistribution doesn’t happen, then opposing free trade is quite rational for some.

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