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Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

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Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#341

Post by AlotOfReading »

hinkley wrote: post #49
stevage wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That surprises me. I seem to recall having read something about the difficulty Tesla had in getting their fancy screens and how much they cost. $50 for a tiny one maybe.

Even my friends group thinks that Alibaba is a valid source of parts for large scale manufacturing. I've just given up on having this argument. Good luck. Part of having a working relationship with a vendor is that you can ask nicely that they don't sell your designs to competitors or market their own knockoffs. Not to mention you can call them up and say, "I need 10k extra of those next month" and they don't just la…

Don't know how recently you've been in the market, but the days when you could do that in automotive are long gone. Now you call a supplier and they're like "I might have something in a year, maybe" or "I have a few dozen, take it or leave it". The sketchy chinese vendors and the expensive specialty vendors are the only ones with any volume left in common parts, but obviously the former lack any sort of plausible automotive qualifications and paying the latter needs higher approvals than engineers can give.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#342

Post by jillesvangurp »

I think there are maybe also a fair bit of car manufacturers that are simply rushing old converted ICE models with a battery to market that also really suck at doing anything with software (like VW). It's easier for them to do what they have been doing for decades than do something new. It's not so much that they don't like touch screens but that they lack the ability to develop good software for them. Particularly most manufacturers mentioned in the article.

As for dangerous trends and Tesla, they do have excellent safety related metrics. There's very little evidence of their cars being more dangerous. The opposite actually.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#343

Post by imafish »

defrost wrote: post #176
midoridensha wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is useless when you put your hands at 9 and 3 like you're supposed to.

... with the caveat that > 10 and 2 o’clock is no longer recommended because it can be dangerous in vehicles with smaller steering wheels and equipped with airbags. (Source: https://driving-tests.org/beginner-drivers/how-to-hold-a-ste... ) and the implication that otherwise the trad 10 and 2 position recommended for decades is still 100% A-OK.

Not sure about GP - but in my country they teach the 9 and 3 position when you take your license. I’ve always thought 10 and 2 was an American thing.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#344

Post by cypress66 »

14 wrote: post #303
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #189

I wouldn't mind touchscreens as long as these imbecile developers would strictly limit UI response time to under 16ms. In no world where you're barrelling 3,000+ lbs of mass at tens of miles an hour should you be distracted by some moronic app or subsystem failing to respond in time because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." Any software running as a part of a motor vehicle should be federally…

That would require a device with the power of an iPad. I’m sure it could be done but again adds another $500-$1000 to the final price of the car. A physical button costs a couple bucks. If we are going to get people on board with electric cars we need to get an economy version and any cost cutting they can do will make the difference.

First of all, an SoC comparable to an iPad isn't $1000 more expensive than what they're using.

More so, the current hardware they use is quite faster than the original 2010 iPad, yet the og iPad is dramatically more responsive than all these laggy cars.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#345

Post by bombolo »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #342

I think there are maybe also a fair bit of car manufacturers that are simply rushing old converted ICE models with a battery to market that also really suck at doing anything with software (like VW). It's easier for them to do what they have been doing for decades than do something new. It's not so much that they don't like touch screens but that they lack the ability to develop good software for them. Particularly m…

No amount of UX genius can make a touchscreen visible when the sun is glaring on it.

For the Teslas records, it might be because they're exclusively used for short urban trips.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#346

Post by chinathrow »

sircastor wrote: post #229
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #189

I wouldn't mind touchscreens as long as these imbecile developers would strictly limit UI response time to under 16ms. In no world where you're barrelling 3,000+ lbs of mass at tens of miles an hour should you be distracted by some moronic app or subsystem failing to respond in time because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." Any software running as a part of a motor vehicle should be federally…

> because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." I used to be an infotainment software engineer for an Auto maker. There’s this idea in the software industry that because the software behaves poorly on your car’s system, it must’ve been written poorly by someone who didn’t know what they were doing. In my experience it was almost always a matter of the hardware being stretched way past its limits.…

> In my experience it was almost always a matter of the hardware being stretched way past its limits.

Then someone else didn't know what they were doing.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#347

Post by shushpanchik »

wildrhythms wrote: post #116
colordrops wrote: post #94

This keeps coming up on Hacker News. It's not that drivers hate touch screens. It's that most of them are terribly implemented. People hated smartphones until Apple released the iPhone. Just think about smartphones before that. The UX was horrid. I suspect most people in this thread piling onto the hate don't own a recent model Tesla. I know that some owners aren't fans, but most are. There are three things that make…

Taking your eyes off the road to adjust the AC is a terrible UX. And as for 'voice commands' bless your heart to imagine every car doesn't have screaming kids in the back seat or a driver with a heavy accent. I want a knob.

Last software update allows to map many functions to long-press of steering wheel button. So you can assign AC temperature to it, then you don't need to take your eyes of the road - just long-press left button and scroll up/down.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#348

Post by justrealist »

codegeek wrote: post #96

ADT the security company started doing touchscreens for their panels and I hate it so much even though I am a tech guy etc. Give me the old school physical keypad any day. I will never buy a Tesla because I sat in one with a friend and I was like no way I am relying on an entire computer/touch screen to run a car.

Other autos all route physical buttons through the car's OS now. Nothing is actually directly wired to the corresponding actuators anymore. The buttons are mechanical but are basically equivalent to a touchscreen in terms of control.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#349

Post by kaba0 »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #189

I wouldn't mind touchscreens as long as these imbecile developers would strictly limit UI response time to under 16ms. In no world where you're barrelling 3,000+ lbs of mass at tens of miles an hour should you be distracted by some moronic app or subsystem failing to respond in time because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." Any software running as a part of a motor vehicle should be federally…

That’s only one part of the problem (somewhat mitigated by solutions like Apple/Android auto), but the very fact that you are expected to touch a small area on the screen when you are on a somewhat bumpy road should have never left the engineering desk.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#350

Post by donalhunt »

Vespasian wrote: post #285
randerson wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the infotainment has been in development for 15 years, all new cars I've played with seem less responsive than a 1st-generation iPhone despite having a UI that is no more capable. Either the engineers aren't making the most of the hardware or the hardware is underpowered by a few decades.

I can imagine that customers are annoyed by laggy UIs but don't weigh that very highly when deciding to buy a new car. Especially if the competition is roughly equally slow, the costs to engineer a responsive solution might be to high for its impact on sales. Consumers, being used to feature rich phones, may indeed value feature count over quality (for the entertainment System). Despite what OEMs claim a car is first…

I think it's a growing factor and the linked article would indicates that manufacturers are receiving feedback about it.

It's not clear whether that feedback is from sales channels (i.e. potential customers are shunning particular products) or from service channels (customers are reporting issues that require additional development spend resulting in profits being eroded).

Personally, I've been looking for a new car for 3+ years and the quality of controls (which are nearly all touchscreen based these days) is a major factor.

This is also a reflection that trust in car manufacturers to address software related issues is low - they are used to designing and building cars that are churned out in 3+ year cycles. Moving to a scenario where the product is changing monthly is a huge change. My 13 year old current car is extremely solid and the controls don't change month to month - something that does happen without any customer choice in more recent times. :/

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