Someone should do something like this smart knob[0]. It looks incredible. [0] https://youtu.be/ip641WmY4pA?t=58
There's an older 'smart' knob out there that was meant I think for CAD interfaces. I don't recall if it's made anymore, but I do know that it's shown up on the bridge of a number of scifi aircraft/spaceships over the last decade. But for the purposes of this discussion, having a couple three of those on the dashboard and using them a bit like radial menus would probably split the difference pretty well.
Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens
91–100 of 1001 posts
Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens
#92I think one of the most frustrating aspects of this whole kerfluffle is the automakers' longstanding willingness to ignore customers and double down at any pushback. It's downright stupid that it has taken this level of screaming from customers to roll back a design choice that should never have been made.
It’s all about the bottom line. Touch screens consolidate a ton of otherwise expensive switch gear. Going back to physical knobs and buttons means going back to paying for engineering, assembling, testing, etc.
Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
Touch screens are also pretty terrible for older people. Vision and fine motor skills both degenerate. Without tactile feedback, it is hard for older people to determine if they've successfully clicked on something. Gestures can be tough to teach and successfully implement without error.
Worse than touch screens are those touch buttons (you know, where the thing is just printed on the outside of the TV). I have no idea why, I'm fluent with touchscreens in the usual way but something in my brain just.... I don't know. Theoretically it should be the same, right? Except it feels horrible and wrong and I even have trouble trying to find the button. Probably because I'm vision-impaired and an actual touch…
Thank god the touchbar is finally gone from the MacBook. It was such a strange delight to use the new model and have the media keys reliably work.
Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens
#94This keeps coming up on Hacker News. It's not that drivers hate touch screens. It's that most of them are terribly implemented. People hated smartphones until Apple released the iPhone. Just think about smartphones before that. The UX was horrid.
I suspect most people in this thread piling onto the hate don't own a recent model Tesla. I know that some owners aren't fans, but most are. There are three things that make the touch screen on Teslas work unlike other cars:
1. The UX - big responsive displays with fast processors and properly designed UIs. They aren't an afterthought like most other vehicles. Every time I drive a car other than my Tesla I too hate the half-ass touch screens.
2. There are indeed still physical controls still on the Tesla for important functions, e.g. drive control, wipers, and audio selection and volume. It's not 100% touch screen.
3. Automation and voice controls handle most of the cases where you'd normally need a knob or button, e.g. wipers and lights are automatic. And voice control seems to be using a state of the art API (Google?) so it works pretty well.
Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens
#95Saw the Impreza’s 2024 redesign, apparently Subaru missed the memo. https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/2024-Su... I recently test drove a Mazda, and while I’ve seen people online complain about their “commander knob” and lack of touch screen, I liked it pretty well. Screen up further on the dashboard is nice for glancing at maps.
I have a new miata, the touch screen is disabled above a certain speed. It's the worse of both worlds. Touch screen sometimes, jog wheel other times. The cursor on the screen lags so you're looking at the screen trying to figure out what is highlighted vs taking 1 second to touch the button you want. It's so bad I ripped out the screen and installed a 3rd party wireless carplay screen before the first car payment. It…
Their new models allow you to enable it all the time (CX-50, I assume CX-90 and the upcoming CX-70), which I do think is a good idea.
Not even just for the driver to be touching it, but if you have a passenger you can let them deal with putting in directions or managing your audio and the wheel is a lot less obvious than a touchscreen to someone who isn't familiar with it.
And as a driver, it felt like there were some things where it'd be easier to just touch the screen too. Like for the buttons scattered around the corner of Maps, scrolling through a list or a grid is easy to navigate, random stuff all over the screen you'll have to learn the order.
Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens
#96ADT the security company started doing touchscreens for their panels and I hate it so much even though I am a tech guy etc. Give me the old school physical keypad any day. I will never buy a Tesla because I sat in one with a friend and I was like no way I am relying on an entire computer/touch screen to run a car.
Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens
#97For the life of me I can't find the link, but there was an awesome HN or Reddit post a few years back where a designer tried to design a touchscreen experience that might work for cars that takes into account that drivers can't focus on the screen. It's been years since I've seen it so I probably don't remember the exact details, but I think it worked by the system working based on gestures wherever the drivers' hand…
Was it this one perhaps? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7261003
Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens
#98I fully agree with ditching distracting screens for safety reasons, but this article focuses more on customers disliking the screens. Maybe my 2017 Civic is not new enough to experience that frustration? It has a touchscreen with Android Auto.
All of my environment controls are on buttons and knobs beneath the screen. I'm comfortable adjusting with the smallest of glances. The only downside here is that the knob is just hooked up to the display, so it has no minimum or maximum: you see the level that is currently set on the screen. A reasonable compromise.
Music controls and cruise control on the wheel. Easily skip, pause, play, and adjust volume or radio stations with the left hand, and also voice control or hang up the phone. Right hand has cruise control. And of course blinkers, wipers, headlights on the sticks at either side of the wheel. Hazard lights are a physical button over the screen. Automatic gear shifter is at the center console.
The only things I can't do with physical button/knob and maybe a brief glance, are select playlists in Spotify, and make changes to Google maps. But for the most part, I don't need to do that while in motion, and I think they should disable those inputs at speed unless a passenger is in the car doing it. Voice control is a decent option for some of it, but it's honestly a bit distracting too, since voice control sometimes messes up and you need to focus on the screen/response too much.
So I guess all of that to say, please do get rid of some of the touchscreen controls for safety. (Also add speed limiters in cities and neighborhoods, for safety). But I guess I'm surprised that customers are the ones revolting here.
Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's an older 'smart' knob out there that was meant I think for CAD interfaces. I don't recall if it's made anymore, but I do know that it's shown up on the bridge of a number of scifi aircraft/spaceships over the last decade. But for the purposes of this discussion, having a couple three of those on the dashboard and using them a bit like radial menus would probably split the difference pretty well.
https://3dconnexion.com/us/product/spacemouse-compact/
That's the one! Looks like they still make it. Not sure why I thought they stopped.
I thought I saw it most recently on The Expanse, but it does not appear to be part of the MCRN Frigate pilot's seat. So either I'm thinking of some other ship, or a different bridge.
Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens
#100remember the time when GM said it’s not going to include CarPlay in its vehicles? And how most of hn was in revolt? here comes News that says we should get rid of touchscreens, why is hn supporting this? (For the record, I hated touch screens in cars before that was a thing and I am OK with gm removing carplay.)
CarPlay replaces functionality built into the car that runs the navigation, dialer, podcasts, and music player. HN likely support CarPlay because the built-in functionality that does this is usually outdated, intuitive, or nonexistent. Most of the frustration around touchscreens involves them replacing AC controls, headlight stock, seat heaters, etc...