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China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

reuters.com

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Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#341

Post by heavenlyblue »

richiebful1 wrote: post #299
heavenlyblue wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that you criticise someone doesn’t make you right though. It’s just a fact that every single empire in history ended up with a society which hated the conquests only to be conquered by another, less ethically-concerned nation. It’s easy to judge when you are in a privileged position, however the reason you do that is because you already made someone else pay the price of the externalities of your champagne p…

Can you explain how conquest is necessary for people to come out of poverty?

Conquest is necessary because if you take a conservative opinion that you should expect from the world what it currently gives you; and what it currently gives you is that a small minority of the world’s population lives semi-happily in the western countries; then the only way for the poorer countries to get on the same level of salaries is to take away those salaries from the west and make west the third world instead.

Every other argument you make is akin to a “what if”. I am speaking about how it _currently_ is.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#342

Post by smithza »

platinumrad wrote: post #271
smithza wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The BLM movement is important; I have no interest in distracting from this problem. Lebron was explicitly asked about the CCP and their human-rights abuses after an NBA manager unpopularly criticized the CCP. The NBA would rather not talk about the CCP and the manager was effectively shamed for doing so. Capitalism cannot look past the $$$. China makes up 10% of NBA revenue [1] [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nba-…

It's absolutely reasonable for NBA players to not want to comment on complicated issues that are outside of the scope of their political interests[1][2]. It would be nice to see the same humility in other aspects of our public discourse. [1] https://www.radio.com/sports/nba/former-nba-star-anti-china-... [2] https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2019/10/12/nb...

These news articles are fallacious appeals to ignorance. We are not ignorant of the very blatant oppression in China. The Hong Kong issue is just another example of communism seeking to squash autonomy and basic human rights. You say 'humility' and another says 'cowardice'. I side with the latter.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#343

Post by beatle_sauce »

warninglights wrote: post #316
beatle_sauce wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please take information with a grain of salt that tries to discredit the researcher, without even mentioning the actual argument. You might not agree with his world view, but Zenz found hard evidence of repression in Xinjiang and uncovered a Chinese government financed program for forced sterilization. If you are Chinese, be aware that any state-control model that works in Tibet or Xinjiang might also be transferred…

Zenz extrapolated based on Food Subsidies. There are NO FACTS on number or what is done there. Go look at Grayzone on the coverage on Zenz. What motivation would they have to make China look better. I could claim people are learning mandarin there.

As you can find in one of his articles, he deducted his findings from from job descriptions and articles in newspapers (Renminribao, Xinhua):

Xinjiang's rapidly evolving security state, Zenz et al., 2017

http://www.academia.edu/download/52174157/Xinjiangs_Rapidly_...

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#344

Post by free_rms »

actuator wrote: post #293
platinumrad wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call it "whataboutism" if you must, but I think it's strange and counterproductive to ignore the elephant in the room when it comes to influence and control over popular media.

Although I agree with the sentiment that US has a lot of soft power influence, I would argue that most of it is just US capitalism shining at its best. I think the best example of this is WW2 related content like movies. In France public perception of who won them World War 2 changed from Soviet Union in 1940s to US in 2000s. [1] One major difference in US soft power is, they don't censor media critical of them to an…

The PRC conflict with Vietnam lasted 3 weeks.

Is it possible, that rather than being a massive cover-up, that war simply wasn't a generation-defining moment for them?

Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War#Chinese_me...

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#345

Post by [deleted] »

tzs wrote: post #202
aww_dang wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Judging the past on the standards of the present isn't a productive line of reasoning. Using past mistakes to rationalize further atrocities is beyond regressive.

True. On the other hand, many of those past behaviors that we see as wrong for today were a big part of how we got to our present high standard of living. Doing those bad things was cheaper and faster than less bad methods. If we are going to tell lower standard of living countries that they need to take the slower or more expensive routes to wealth instead of using the same bad ways we did, we should be using some o…

[deleted]

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#346

Post by mattnewton »

wil421 wrote: post #138
mattnewton wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He probably had family they got to.

His dad was retired PLA and a party member. His mom was a government official and also a party member. In a way they did get to them but not in the way you imply.

Thank you for giving more information, I should have researched more before commenting.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#347

Post by free_rms »

spollo wrote: post #338
free_rms wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation? The US has a record of wanting to be hegemon and specifically wanting to export our ideology. China, not so much outside of their borders and immediate sea lanes. Are you just assuming they want to do so because that's what we do?

It's all lies. I used to believe this line of thought about China. "We aren't expansionist like the US, we just want to do things our way inside of the country". It's not true. China as a unified country has never been as large as it is today. They are actively taking over parts of Nepal, they have taken pieces of land from India, they invaded and took over Tibet, the are nearing genocidal strategies to eradicate any…

All that without a shot fired!

Imagine if they actually had a military as active as the US, NATO, or the Russians. Where do you go from here, rhetorically?

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#348

Post by noobface1337 »

One of my favourite publications is The Grayzone https://thegrayzone.com/ it helps to remind me that BS such as these https://narratively.com/the-literally-unbelievable-story-of-... are still being orchestrated by the US today.

In it, they have also reported about the Xinjiang situation, which you can all read here: https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-millions-... Since I know that reading is not HN's forte, what basically it says is that there is no solid evidence for what's been reported about Xinjiang, and most of what's reported is basically lies fabricated by one Adrian Zenz. The same Adrian Zenz quoted in this Reuters article. It's really kinda funny what people hold up as evidence these days, no wonder why the world is going against the 'intelligence' from the 5-eye countries.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#349

Post by novok »

reaperducer wrote: post #211
apexalpha wrote: post #55

The whole Tibet situation is such a horrible one. From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. Plus, China isn't going to be impressed when the old Imperial continent with 140 ex-colonies and the current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases are go…

But we also can't say anything because China makes all our stuff. I happily pay more for things not made in China, when I can. When I can buy an iPhone that's not made in China, I'll buy it. Even if it means a downgrade. Several of my family members buy as many vintage and second-hand goods as they can. Not to be hipsters (are hipsters still a thing anymore?), but because they do not want to support China.

Personal morality-based boycotts do nothing, you need to out compete China.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#350

Post by novok »

lostlogin wrote: post #331
golergka wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> current imperial top-dog with 800 foreign military bases You make it sound as if they were a part of aggressive expansion and colonisation, which is a bit misleading. Vast majority of US military bases are in NATO countries that were very enthusiastic about outsourcing protection from the soviet threat.

There are some bases that cause a lot of friction however. Behaving like they can do what they like is not in the US’s best interest. The latest rape saga in the Philippines comes to mind and the damage done by the 1990s rape of a child in Okinawa and it’s aftermath have damaged the US image. Also behaving like they are above the law, there was the appalling behaviour of the US military when a family member of a serv…

Crimes that number in the dozens of people and is disliked / prosecuted by the USA is a candle compared to the sun of China's concentration camps.
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