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China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

reuters.com

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Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#151

Post by nate_meurer »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #115

It has been sad to learn about the U.S. fighting fires in CA with prison labor. It is sad for a number of reasons, but in situations like this it removes moral standing of the US to criticize others, because clearly there is little introspection happening. The US houses 25% of the world’s prison population, how much more law and order do we need? Why do our prisoners labor for our governments and companies? Is this f…

Prison work release programs in the US have no fucking resemblance to forced labor in chinese concentration camps.

US prison work release programs are strictly voluntary, are paid (a pathetic pittance, but still paid), and prisoners can use the work experience to support applications for early parole. In many cases the work experience is valuable for gaining employment after parole.

The natural result is that these programs are popular with inmates, in spite of insultingly low pay.

Since you didn't bother to support your strawman (or should we call it a scarecrow?) with any citations:

https://fair.org/home/us-media-cant-think-how-to-fight-fires...

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#152

Post by free_rms »

yters wrote: post #137
ceejayoz wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> now reject colonialism Nah, we just changed how it's done.

maybe we do something else bad now, but we no longer do the particular thing known as colonialism

Afghanistan, Iraq? And that's before we get into proxy wars.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#153

Post by bserge »

Miner49er wrote: post #5

What China has done to Tibet is horrible. One thing that is missing from this article is how they are doing this? How are they coercing people? Are they literally dragging them out of their homes? Threatening them? Or are they just offering them opportunities that are actually preferable to their current conditions, and the people are accepting them?

The how part doesn't seem that difficult to me. It's like military conscription.

They offer you 'stable pay' and a 'chance to learn some useful skills' and a 'pension' if you accept and fines or jailtime for your whole family if you refuse.

Basically, it's work in a factory as an "employee" or work in a factory as an inmate.

People really have no other option than to accept.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#154

Post by dirtyid »

dimitar wrote: post #114

I'm currently reading Anne Applebaum's Gulag: A History and the origins are the following: * Initially they had a huge amount of prisoners and shortage of workers in key regions. Naturally they had them work in remote areas. * The real motivation is economic - the central planners simply loved the flexibility of slave labor - they could start pet projects quickly. They wanted to complete vanity projects that made no…

>will eventually run out of cheap rural labor

Premier Li KeQiang revealed this year over 600m Chinese still live on 1000RMB a month. China will _never_ run out of cheap labour. The reality is, even at the height of Chinese export economy 10 years ago, manufacturing "only" employed ~400M workers. China has more cheap work force than _global_ demand.

These poverty alleviation / sinicization programs are just that. They're trying to reign in minorities in frontier regions with separatism risk. The vocational training salaries compensates better than the aforementioned 600m on 1000RMB per month. The mass of Han rural poor looking for migrant work opportunities would riot if they found out how much minorities are "privileged" in these programs. Many are already pissed at the affirmative action privileges afforded to minorities in many facets of life.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#155

Post by jariel »

coldtea wrote: post #145
jariel wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, are Hawaiians put into forced labour camps? Can they own property? Businesses? Vote? Can the run for Congress, Senate, President? Are they taught that they cannot have their heritage? "whataboutism'.

Yes, they are "free", in their old land, under the laws and federal government of the US...

" the laws and federal government of the US"

Under their laws. They are equal to everyone else.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#156

Post by bobbyz »

free_rms wrote: post #129
dimitrios1 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is some grade A+ projection over here. Han chauvinism was so bad that Mao Zedong drafted a party directive specifically to address it.

The phrase han supremacy itself is projection. It's super American to put things specifically in racial terms. Mao was giving minority cultures exemptions from the 1-child policy, subsidies, and all sorts of other stuff at a time when we were running Jim Crow. 90%+ of Han Chinese only ever see other Chinese, they do have a sort of belief that their culture is the best culture on the planet and the center of the world…

Han Supremacy. I can't take these clowns seriously.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#157

Post by free_rms »

oxymoran wrote: post #105
ReptileMan wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Han supremacy has all the markings of other supremacist movements and will unfortunately need to be confronted. Are you willing to sacrifice your life for the freedom of Tibet? I am not

You think they will stop with Tibet? The CCP wants China to be the new world hegemony. They think that their illiberal system is the only way and they want to spread it to every corner of the world. War is not the answer because it would be inconceivably horrific. But the world needs to stand up to China and stop putting up with their crap. Stop buying their crap. Start calling them out for their imperialism.

Citation?

The US has a record of wanting to be hegemon and specifically wanting to export our ideology. China, not so much outside of their borders and immediate sea lanes.

Are you just assuming they want to do so because that's what we do?

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#158

Post by free_rms »

ReptileMan wrote: post #108
mensetmanusman wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why were our grandparents willing to sacrifice their life for the Europeans?

Well they weren't. It took great deal of effort to get involved in both wars. The US has traditionally been isolationists on matters in the eastern hemisphere. And it took world wars - here we are talking about internal china problem which is harder sell. China invading someone US cares about - like Japan may convince the US public to pay the nuclear butcher bill, but what they do on their own territory is not

Worth noting that there weren't any 'good guys' in WWI like the story we're told about WWII. It was just a slugfest between colonial powers who were all doing awful stuff.

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#159

Post by actuator »

rtx wrote: post #62

This could be in response of India creating Tibetan special forces division. India wants to create a Tibetan rebellion in case of war. https://theprint.in/opinion/indias-use-of-secret-guerrilla-f...

That is not new, the wiki article mentions it existing from 1962: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Frontier_Force

Re: China sharply expands mass labor program in Tibet

#160

Post by gedy »

jjcon wrote: post #144
coldtea wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From our Western perspective it feels so wrong that they're essentially trying to extinguish an entire culture and 'fitting' it into China. Yeah, kinda like Hawaii. (Not to mention Native Americans' lands, civilization, and culture). Or, well, Mexico. Sure, it's, "whataboutism". Which is an improvement on the our-shit-doesn't-smell-besides-that-was-back-a-while-ago-so-we-get-to-keep-it-now "Western perspective". Or…

Because Britain and Spain colonized Hawaii in the 1500s nobody can criticize China for using forced labor in the 2020s? That takes some serious mental gymnastics.

It makes sense when viewed as: people only care about us vs them tribal crap. The modern era and access to information just puts a veneer of "reasoning" for justifying their own BS.
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