Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok • Hacker News Board

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#341

Post by boomboomsubban » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 3:38 AM UTC

agapon wrote: post #310

boomboomsubban wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

*39. The alternative was likely German occupation of the whole region, and from that perspective their statement makes sense.

Which Nazi Germany did anyway, just a short time later. It seems that holding joint parades, signing secret pacts, sacrificing Comintern, etc, still did not help much.

>seems that holding joint parades, signing secret pacts, sacrificing Comintern, etc, still did not help much.

Neither did appeasement. The correct response to Ribbentrop's suggestions was war on Germany, just like the correct choice at the Munich agreement was war on Germany. Beyond that, you're just choosing between bad options.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#342

Post by dang » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 3:42 AM UTC

xorcist wrote: post #317

dang wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment breaks the site guidelines: " Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Sinister insinuation about astroturfing is the internet's favorite pastime. The overwhelming…

Astroturfing doesn't exist? Are all companies selling such services charlatans? Not sure I buy it. It's well established that you can buy followers, reviews, positive comments and even stories on all large public platforms, and they are quite public about it.

Sure it exists. We've banned people for it. I've scolded them publicly for it, too, in the hope of discouraging others from doing similar things. So no, what I'm saying is that it's wrong to claim astroturfing without evidence, and the mere fact of someone posting a comment that you feel is wrong—even outrageously, perversely wrong—is not evidence of astroturfing. It's evidence merely that they have a different view than you.

I can't speak about other forums but as far as I'm aware there's one outfit that sells HN votes and comments and stories. What their customers don't seem to realize is that using that service will get them banned here. At this point I figure the spammers know this too, but since people still buy from them, they probably don't care. I doubt they get much repeat business though.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#343

Post by jjeaff » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 5:42 AM UTC

lightgreen wrote: post #297

mikelyons wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could say the same about America and Trump. The masses always will consume the propaganda, I don't see how this will ever be eliminated. Rather than sad, it's just part of the system. How can we improve the results? Is there a systems-thinking approach that takes this into account and bends it toward positive ends?

Or you can say the same about America and Biden. Or America and Bush. Or America and Clinton. > The masses always will consume the propaganda, I don't see how this will ever be eliminated. I could say that you have consumed leftists propaganda about Trump. But I won't. > The masses always will consume the propaganda > How can we improve the results? For starters, stop thinking of people as masses. They are capable of…

It was clear to me why people voted for trump the first time round. (Although, many experts believe it was more about voting against Clinton than for trump.)

He was an outsider/wildcard/Maverick and perceived smart businessman so his promises to clean up the corruption seemed more plausible than the entrenched status quo.

Now that his lack of business acumen, lack of general intelligence, non-existent diplomacy, zero empathy, and pure personal greed mixed with nepotism and corruption has been laid bare, I understand those who plan to vote for him next time round very little except through the lens of identity politics and hate/racism/xenophobia/epistemonophobia.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#344

Post by dang » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 6:30 AM UTC

vernie wrote: post #143

Good luck with this one dang

Hey could you please stop posting flamebait and unsubstantive comments? We're trying to be somewhat different than that here, with the crazy idea of staving off internet heat death for as long as possible. Like any other entropy-defying strategy that takes a lot of energy.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#345

Post by singularity2001 » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 6:32 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #282

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@dang, I collected 5000 exit points of what seems to be sources of Kremlinbot activity here: https://gist.github.com/mikhailian/5d65694fdaaf0ccbab4c6cf39... watch out these are IPv4 and IPv6 formatted lists of subnets as exported from ipset. There are some specifics to my use case, take this with a grain of sault. Hope this helps sorting genuine Putin-lovers from Kremlin bots.

Thanks! I'll take a look. Feel free to ping me at hn@ycombinator.com if you like—it can take time to get to something like this but we're definitely willing.

It would be very helpful if there was a follow up post to confirm whether in this specific case the insinuations were justified

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#346

Post by dang » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 6:33 AM UTC

singularity2001 wrote: post #345

dang wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! I'll take a look. Feel free to ping me at hn@ycombinator.com if you like—it can take time to get to something like this but we're definitely willing.

It would be very helpful if there was a follow up post to confirm whether in this specific case the insinuations were justified

In which specific case?

Edit: I've now had a chance to examine this data. It turns out that the IP ranges in that list are so broad as to cover more than 50% of the posts on HN.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#347

Post by lazyjones » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 7:17 AM UTC

itroot wrote: post #294

Guy from Russia here. Not an expert, but I feel the pain when my country looks so negative in the news. First, I wish Alexey fast recovery. Second, Alexey wasn't a popular politic figure in past time, I believe that his peak of popularity was in 2013-2015. Third, I think no one here is actually benefiting from this tragic event... the whole story just seems quite strange. Frankly, there a lot of more simple approache…

> no one here is actually benefiting from this tragic event

The opponents of Nord Stream 2 are clearly benefiting from it.

People should ask themselves why he was flown to Germany of all places. People should generally ask more questions and try to see behind all the quick finger-pointing.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#348

Post by lazyjones » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 7:18 AM UTC

tanyatik wrote: post #319

lightgreen wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel the pain when my country looks so negative in the news. I'm from Russia, and I feel pain when people mix my country and my my country corrupt and criminal government.

> I'm from Russia, and I feel pain when people mix my country and my my country corrupt and criminal government +1000 - it often feels that people geniunely don't see any difference.

Strange when it often comes from people who, when asked about their own country, have the same opinion about it.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#349

Post by lazyjones » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 7:21 AM UTC

sneak wrote: post #43

This is the second time they've done this, IIRC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Skripal It's pretty much the ultimate flex, no? "We can kill anyone we want in any country, and you can't do shit about it."

> pretty much the ultimate flex, no? "We can kill anyone we want in any country, and you can't do shit about it

Yes, awesome "flex" when they supposedly failed both times, with one of the deadliest substances known.

It just shows how gullible people who believe these stories are. They can't draw obvious conclusions and totally believe contradicting claims.

Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok

#350

Post by lazyjones » Thu, Sep 03, 2020, 7:27 AM UTC

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #280

dang wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment breaks the site guidelines: " Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Sinister insinuation about astroturfing is the internet's favorite pastime. The overwhelming…

@dang, I collected 5000 exit points of what seems to be sources of Kremlinbot activity here: https://gist.github.com/mikhailian/5d65694fdaaf0ccbab4c6cf39... watch out these are IPv4 and IPv6 formatted lists of subnets as exported from ipset. There are some specifics to my use case, take this with a grain of sault. Hope this helps sorting genuine Putin-lovers from Kremlin bots.

I picked a random IPv4 address from this list and looked at it. It's a dynamic mobile IP address from Belgium, used by thousands of customers.

Come on people, apply some common sense and stop the hysteria.