I wonder if https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_29155 is also behind this assassination attempt. But until now they used to work only outside of Russia (Skripal, Gebrev, ...).
Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok
271–280 of 371 posts
Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
This comment breaks the site guidelines: " Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Sinister insinuation about astroturfing is the internet's favorite pastime. The overwhelming…
> countless hours looking at the data Will you provide that data for independent review? Edit: it's not that you shouldn't be trusted. The issue is the old “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” For example, what if a large segment of the user base, that regularly contributed extraordinarily positive engagements, existed solely for the opportunitie…
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Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, those are mostly the same. Noob (newbie, n00b) comes from newcomer/novice. Amateur I'm not sure how it fits in there. I think BBC is just using the synonym that the most people would understand (newcomer vs noob, everyone gets the first, some will not understand the second)
Guessing it was amateur in the derogatory sense.
I'd translate it as "rookie".
Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok
#274There was reasonable reason to believe Berezovsky was responsible for the Litvinenko poisoning; it's not inconceivable something like that is going on here with some other oligarch Nalvany pissed off; he is a corruption reformer more than anything else. Since the BBC is a propaganda organ rather than a news service, they are singularly unlikely to present us with any of the other potential candidates, but I could probably think of a few that Nalvany might have annoyed.
It's also kind of weird they'd use such an apparently ineffective poison when prussic acid or ricin (or car accidents) would do the work rather more reliably. Novichunk didn't work on the Skripals either. Where are the Skripals anyway?
Whatever happened: one thing is for certain: Western media, the BBC in particular is an enormous basket of fail in reporting on anything out of Russia. No shortage of numskulls who have never actually visited the place or talked to any of its people who seem really sure of themselves though.
Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
This comment breaks the site guidelines: " Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Sinister insinuation about astroturfing is the internet's favorite pastime. The overwhelming…
> countless hours looking at the data Will you provide that data for independent review? Edit: it's not that you shouldn't be trusted. The issue is the old “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” For example, what if a large segment of the user base, that regularly contributed extraordinarily positive engagements, existed solely for the opportunitie…
No, for the privacy reason pvg mentioned (edit: since deleted, but he made the simple point that it would violate users' privacy), and also for a different reason: it would convince no one. The only people with enough time and energy to bother looking at it would be people who already have strong views, and they would inevitably pull their preconceptions back out of the data and claim that they'd proven something.
And there's a third reason: sooner or later (maybe we're already there, maybe not yet) we have to assume a sufficiently smart manipulator (SSM) who's able to do whatever they want and be indistinguishable from a legit user. This is exactly what your phrase alludes to, I think: "regularly contributed extraordinarily positive engagements, existed solely for the opportunities to frame certain conversations". Once we're past that SSM threshold, all we can do is fall back on what the community ought to be doing anyway: answering false information with correct information, answering worse arguments with better ones, preserving community-ness without falling into war.
Since that's the only long term solution and it's what we want anyway, we might as well be practicing it now.
Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
I definitely believe you. A Russian colleague, who is living in EU for several years, found it justified that Russia invaded Poland back in 1940. We were all baffled.
*39. The alternative was likely German occupation of the whole region, and from that perspective their statement makes sense.
Sure, just like they "freed" eastern europe from the Germans...
Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok
#277If you ever wonder about the extent of Russia's online efforts consider that the comments on this HN thread might be part of things. Not saying anything in here is good/bad/other but you rarely see this level of flagged and down-voted comments in a HN thread.
Again with the blanket accusations of astroturfing without any proof. Crying shill whenever you encounter an opposing opinion is not something a rational and free-thinking person does. What you're basically doing is refusing to engage intellectually on certain viewpoints which just so happen to go against the interests of your home country's government. From the perspective of an outsider, it looks a lot like the res…
I agree with you in principle, but the way you expressed it reads too much like a personal attack for my taste. I don't think it's a good way to make the discussion more rational after the initial accusation of astroturfing.
Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not that I don't believe you, but how would you back such statement when you say "majority".
By matching what happens in Belarus now to Russia. It was long believed, even in US, that Lukashenka had the majority. In reality, he faked all elections since 1994. Once his deeds became hard to ignore even for pathetically peaceful Belarusians, all the population turned against him. Gosh, the exit poll in my voting station recorded only one vote for Lukashenka among 358. I was there watching the exit poll for a cou…
And how does what happens in Belarus match what happens in Russia? Lukashenka and Putin are different kinds of people, they do different politics, Russian and Belarussian governments are not that alike. Just because both of them are "dictators" doesn't mean their people think the same about them.
Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
As an American, I agree with you. In my experience, the US is facing an existential crisis stemming from a loud segment of the population, emboldened by Trump, that believes and promotes propaganda in a way that I thought was reserved for third world dictatorships. I'm terrified of the day after the elections. If the left wins then, we risk retaliation from the gun-and-violence-glorifying right. If the right wins, th…
The people we put in place to protect us think they're gonna make it out just fine either way. It doesn't matter who wins, because the real battle the next few years will be about defining the new rules, not playing by the old ones. The right wing is an extreme minority that has obtained influence mostly by hacking the system. Anyone who stands up to them and patches the exploits will have a post-facto mandate, but t…
I agree with you.
I also think that this "standing up" can start right at home.
For example, as my grandparents "number one grandchild," I informed them that the reason why I haven't talked to them for months, and have no intention of being a part of their future, is because they support Trump.
Will this be a good or bad move on my part? I don't know.
But, I do know that these right-wing extremists have no reservation using deadly force. And if ending a relationship with people that effectively raised me just might bring this to an end any sooner, then count me in.
Re: Russia opposition leader poisoned with Novichok
#280If you ever wonder about the extent of Russia's online efforts consider that the comments on this HN thread might be part of things. Not saying anything in here is good/bad/other but you rarely see this level of flagged and down-voted comments in a HN thread.
This comment breaks the site guidelines: " Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Sinister insinuation about astroturfing is the internet's favorite pastime. The overwhelming…
@dang, I collected 5000 exit points of what seems to be sources of Kremlinbot activity here: https://gist.github.com/mikhailian/5d65694fdaaf0ccbab4c6cf39... watch out these are IPv4 and IPv6 formatted lists of subnets as exported from ipset.
There are some specifics to my use case, take this with a grain of sault. Hope this helps sorting genuine Putin-lovers from Kremlin bots.