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Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

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Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#331

Post by NaughtyShiba »

oblak wrote: post #269
NaughtyShiba wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t. Gender/minority preference is radical liberalism, which in long run causes more damage than it helps. Germany requires company boards to include females too (could be executive positions, can’t recall exactly) yet market just doesn’t have enough supply for these positions. Quit telling women that math or toy cars ain’t for them, instead of enforcing stupid rules

My niece told my wife dinosaurs are for boys. She likes her pink disney junk very much. It's not the kid's fault.

Of course it’s not, that was my exact point - let kids decide.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#332

Post by hulitu »

maest wrote: post #244
notart666 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

English is the simplest Latin based language. This has nothing to do with pronunciation but not even knowing basic words. Or how to communicate. Only a small percentage of Indians speak English and most statistics on it are heavily inflated. The Indian English Education system is the same one the Japanese and Koreans use. And they don't know English. The reality is it's like if you learned Spanish in middle school to…

> English is the simplest Latin based language. It's not a Latin-based language (French, Italian, Spanish etc are Latin-based languages). It's not clear how you measure simplicity, but, in terms of phonetics, English is quite the nightmare as the link between the spelling and the pronunciation is often determined by the history of the word, rather than by a clear set of phonetical rules. So, at least by that measure,…

> It's not clear how you measure simplicity

Compared with other european languages the english grammar is much simpler and the number of words needed to communicate is also not so high.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#333

Post by the_doctah »

alephnerd wrote: post #233
dartharva wrote: post #168

This entire comment section seems to have gone down the drain to Reddit-tier exchanges. People giving their own false commentary on broad topics just for the sake of it without even trying to understand contexts, this is totally not expected on HN.

Agreed! I’ve complained about this before recently on HN and was flagged for this. Also, a lot of these accounts appear to be new accounts (less than 1 year tenure on HN), so most charitably they might be users who aren’t used to the norms on HN. On a separate note, Dang can you please moderate this entire section? The dog whistles and mean spirited comments on here are insane.

Ironically, "dog whistle" has become a dog whistle for censorship. At least you didn't hide the intent.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#334

Post by steveBK123 »

ramphastidae wrote: post #330
steveBK123 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I worked with a large team for 2 years, including going over to run a week long training program .. I found just a general disinclination for efficiency, automation or time saving... which cynically wouldn't surprise you when you consider they are running a quantity/body shop. The craziest conversation I had was trying to convince a guy who came in every morning and ran a script that he could put it on a timer/s…

Devils advocate: would he get paid any more to be more efficient? Or would he just get more work?

Sure but I can’t imagine that mindset from an onshore FTE dev, can you? Let me do stuff as slowly as possible so my boss doesn’t give me more work. Can be applied to any job.

Refusal to do obvious time saving tasks when instructed to would probably put you on the “does not meet” list next review cycle.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#335

Post by P5fRxh5kUvp2th »

newyankee wrote: post #271
P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India works on a caste system, said caste system being very discriminatory. What the other poster meant is that you'll end up hiring out of the upper castes and they'll display a lot of bias towards other castes. It's to the point that many from India won't admit to the caste they're in.

That is a very far fetched statement. I am an Indian and technically from Other backward class (OBC) as classified in the system. I have never had a problem in my city. Off course that doesn't mean that India is not a huge and complex country with 100s if not thousands of groups differentiated based on region, class , caste etc. You are colouring a very complicated and nuanced issue with your personal biases.

About a month ago I watched an Indian man absolutely go off on another Indian man after hearing his name (this was over zoom). The Indian Man being accosted just took it, and yes, the disagreement was about the name.

I've both read about it and seen it first hand. You don't typically see it expressed so publicly as the above anecdote, most of the time it comes across as an odd sort of subservience. Almost the way you would expect a mail room worker to act towards the CEO.

No one said all Indian's are like this, but it has to do with the Paradox of Intolerance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

> The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant.

All it takes is for 1 or 2 individuals to have this attitude and it will eventually take over.

No one ever said it was everyone, but the issue exists.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#336

Post by tatpacc »

dominotw wrote: post #212
mkl95 wrote: post #53

I was a consultant for an American company that also hired dozens of cheap consultants from development countries. Mostly India but also neighbouring countries and some Eastern European countries. Indians were by far the hardest to work with. They ghosted women systematically which was a nightmare for our project manager. They also lied shamelessly about their qualifications which led to absurd situations. The proble…

Main problem with hiring through these shops is you never know who exactly is working on your project. They would present us with resumes of some experienced candidates but it looked like that person is being sold to multiple companies with expectation that he would be exclusive. They would all be committing to code repo with single "git@congnizant.com" so you never know who the man behind the screen is. All conferen…

> They would all be committing to code repo with single "git@congnizant.com"

it really depends, what's the process of end client. In many cases, even each offshore developers have client's email and it's used as SSO with GIT/Slack/etc. Not saying that what you are describing is not possible with this but it certainly makes it difficult and almost not feasible.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#337

Post by Jcowell »

aliqot wrote: post #76
Swenrekcah wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many don’t even acknowledge that their policies are discriminatory. But it’s still a good argument to point out that discriminatory diversity policies are discriminatory. Because that forces those that advocate for them to lay out their justifications and also at what point the policy is no longer needed. I’m not against affirmative action where it makes sense, but it’s a heavy handed policy and as such needs very go…

Affirmative action is bigotry of low expectations by another name. Imagine if I were a minority doctor who benefited from this, my patients will always wonder if I'm less-than. Nobody wants to go to a cardiologist that was bottom of their class, so why instill that doubt and call it a leg up?

Nha I would look at the doctor and think , word for word, “good shit nigga” [Note I am black :)]

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#338

Post by steveBK123 »

steveBK123 wrote: post #334
ramphastidae wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devils advocate: would he get paid any more to be more efficient? Or would he just get more work?

Sure but I can’t imagine that mindset from an onshore FTE dev, can you? Let me do stuff as slowly as possible so my boss doesn’t give me more work. Can be applied to any job. Refusal to do obvious time saving tasks when instructed to would probably put you on the “does not meet” list next review cycle.

And let me follow up by saying the problem with many of these offshoring firm arrangements is that the number of layers in between the person assigning tasks and person doing tasks.

Purposeful inefficiency is harder to sniff out because it’s not a manager-ic relationship. There’s often 2-3 hops inserted into the middle with the work going into a pool for the offshore team lead to manage. The offshore team lead is also consulting company so they have no efficiency incentives either.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#339

Post by P5fRxh5kUvp2th »

KrishnaShripad wrote: post #326
P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you lumped me in with them, implying an attitude I don't have. And before you try to claim otherwise, don't bother. The English language has implicature. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/implicature/

I lumped you in with propagandists. Some spread propaganda of there being "systemic slavery" while others say "What the other poster meant is that you'll end up hiring out of the upper castes and they'll display a lot of bias towards other castes". Both are not borne out of facts but malicious propaganda. "It's to the point that many from India won't admit to the caste they're in." You are implying this in a negative…

right, you lumped me in with someone talking about slavery.

That might have been the first indication you were being unfair.

The poster I responded to thought they were talking about money, the poster was talking about castes.

Leave your religious wars at the door please.

Re: Infosys asked HR not to hire 'Indian-origin candidates', 'women with children'

#340

Post by arinlen »

steveBK123 wrote: post #291
mkl95 wrote: post #53

I was a consultant for an American company that also hired dozens of cheap consultants from development countries. Mostly India but also neighbouring countries and some Eastern European countries. Indians were by far the hardest to work with. They ghosted women systematically which was a nightmare for our project manager. They also lied shamelessly about their qualifications which led to absurd situations. The proble…

Many years ago I worked at big dumb banks. There was a lot of top down forced offshoring with ultimatums like - hey you can have +4 headcount in Mumbai or +0 in NY. Further, we found we had to spend $10Ks at a time to send NY/London staff over there monthly to figure out wtf was going on. These offshoring firms were running some serious scams. We once had a guy come back (mid 2000s) and say that his 5 devs in Hyderab…

> Further, we found we had to spend $10Ks at a time to send NY/London staff over there monthly to figure out wtf was going on. These offshoring firms were running some serious scams. We once had a guy come back (mid 2000s) and say that his 5 devs in Hyderabad were equipped with 4 PCs and 3 phones between them!!

Oh this brings back memories. A few years ago I worked for a company which offloaded functional testing to a team in Chennai, including pre-release shakedown tests. We did that until there was a release which started to blow up in a critical point that was very hard to recover from, right after being deployed to all customers. We were baffled because we had test sets covering precisely this scenario, and the tests all passed. To cut to the chase, we soon discovered that our trusty Chennai team was not to be trusted and in reality was signing off releases without performing a single test. Everyone in that team was fired and replaced by other replacement testers also based from Chennai, and once the new testers started running the exact same test sets then all sorts of red flags started to surface. Now, here's the kicker: it only took a couple of weeks until the new Chennai-based testers started to flag tests as passes even though they never ran them at all, which we discovered because we also added telemetry to track those.

Anecdotal evidence, but we only ceased to have problems with Chennai-based teams once we finished automating away their job.

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