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Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

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Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#331

Post by quicklyfrozen »

spike021 wrote: post #256
t-writescode wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people don’t have that privilege either.

I would argue that a car is totally a privilege that is above that of finding other means of transportation. I couldn't even afford one until I graduated college and was working full-time. Before then I walked if I had to, sometimes over a mile depending on the destination, or took public transportation.

Living somewhere where you don't need a car is the privilege, at least in the US. I'd have to walk 2 miles to get to public transit, and that includes crossing a pedestrian unfriendly major road.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#332

Post by Ntrails »

foobarian wrote: post #194
echelon wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

One time I was driving between cities at 2am for unavoidable reasons, and was drowsy. At one point my brain interpreted the shifting red taillights in front of me as a game of Tetris. That's when I knew it was too dangerous to continue so I pulled over (rest stop was close by) and took a 15 minute nap. I found that powernaps like this are really effective at energizing me past browning out and letting me finish the d…

Resting eyes for long blinks is my main memory of drives I shoulda died on. Mostly around 4am on deserted country roads I knew well.

Good news is I would only have killed myself. But honestly there is a reason young people have more car accidents, they make bad fucking choices. I was nothing but lucky!

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#333

Post by thatcat »

Mirioron wrote: post #236
Silhouette wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This purist notion of 'they should never be allowed to drive a car, for everyone else's protection' crumbles at the most trivial examination when you consider that you're talking about leaving millions of people jobless or in significantly worse quality of life conditions You contend that there are millions of people who knowingly drive while tired enough to fall asleep at the wheel and with a history of doing so? If…

> According to the National Sleep Foundation, about half of U.S. adult drivers admit to consistently getting behind the wheel while feeling drowsy. About 20% admit to falling asleep behind the wheel at some point in the past year – with more than 40% admitting this has happened at least once in their driving careers. From: https://www.nsc.org/road-safety/safety-topics/fatigued-drivi... Those are enormous numbers. I w…

Wow so if you maximize economic growth at the cost of setting up a system that regularly requires a high degree of easily avoidable risk, then later you can use the "you're destroying the economy" argument to prevent any reasonable response that would lower that risk. That seems like a very irresponsible way of managing a system.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#334

Post by quicklyfrozen »

wobblyasp wrote: post #210
andrei_says_ wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a sensible request but an absurd demand. Unless we first institute livable wages with sane working hours and paid commute time along with free childcare. So that survival does not demand that people abuse their bodies with lack of sleep. agreeing that externalities like house work, parenting, commuting exist, have cost, and need to be considered in a viable economy could be a great step. Doughnut economics is o…

I totally agree; there should never be a situation where an individual is required to put their life and limb on the line to provide for their families. It still does not justify placing the life and limbs of all other people on the road in jeopardy.

But that's the system we've put in place, and people have to live within it. They have to provide for their families, and that may end up placing them or those around them at risk.

It may not be justified, but it's reality.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#335

Post by kbenson »

Silhouette wrote: post #327
kbenson wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said there was a pattern and people continuing to drive after it happened once?

It's right there in the top comment that started this whole thread.

That is not where the context of this thread is. My comment clearly changed it to how sometimes it can be hard to know, and how experiencing it once can be useful to knowing what that feeling it. You responded to it. The context at this point is not about repeating that, you're mixing your threads, and likely arguing against points people are not making but you think they are because of that mistake.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#336

Post by judge2020 »

fma wrote: post #326
ericlewis wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s opt in as the article outlines.

Article talks about driver facing camera...not external.

This internal camera warning[0]. It specifically says Cabin Camera.

0: https://i.judge.sh/elated/Fleet/chrome_cg336vF03X.png

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#337

Post by sillysaurusx »

damnyou wrote: post #184
gamblor956 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need you driver license for your job, without you will lose everything. This is why they provide ID cards that do not grant driving privileges. And why public transportation exists.

Public transportation does not in fact exist in large parts of the US. Our society puts so many people in impossible binds. This discussion needs a great deal more empathy for them.

I just wanted to chime in and say that you’re right. Lots of people have no experience outside of big cities, so they don’t know how bad it is. Cars are a necessity in many places in the US; perhaps even most.

Uber didn’t come to the St Louis “surrounding area” for some time, and even when they did, it was hard to find a driver.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#338

Post by ghaff »

jpambrun wrote: post #309
scarmig wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an ungenerous reading of the comment. They would agree that falling asleep at the wheel is unsafe. We've designed a system, however, that is set up such that it's bound to happen sometimes. Not everyone can call in to work and tell their boss "sorry, I slept badly last night, I'm not coming in" or order a $60 Uber to get somewhere on a whim. Moralizing at people is just virtue signaling.

If you can't drive safely; you can't drive. There is no middle ground. You may think it's fine to take a risk for yourself based on your costs/benefits, but it's definitely not fine to take a risk for others.

I'd point out that many things are not binary.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#339

Post by judge2020 »

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #284
cycrutchfield wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then don't buy it?

The don't buy it argument has never held up. Look at phones, the options for a removable battery, sd card slot, 3.5mm jack are all gone on all but the most primitive/weird models of phones. If the general public goes against your preference then your preference will no longer be an option. For cars this likely means that the only way to get a car that isn't spyware/ad tech will be buying an old car before this happen…

This is a problem of society zeroing in on the most convenient technology. You still today are not forced to buy a phone nor a car, but if you want any chance of making a living more than 5 miles away from your home (well, depending on how far you can walk or bike) you need both a cell phone for receiving work-related communication and a car for getting to/from work on time. The problem is that 99%+ of society sees that receiving cooler, better tech (like a faster phone or a more efficient car) is a worthy tradeoff for the issues that only <%1 of consumers aren't happy with.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#340

Post by deviation »

fudged71 wrote: post #46

Tesla has a history of using remote diagnostics to snitch on drivers instead of allowing investigators to do their job. It’s a valid concern that your car manufacturer will use the interior cameras to blame a crime on you. These automatic tagging features also bring to question the bias in algorithms. What does this mean for drivers with disabilities? Is it possible that a safe driver with ADHD or Turrets etc might b…

What do you mean by snitch? I think it's a perfectly valid reason to "snitch" if the driver was truly at fault.

There's some great reasons for driver-facing cameras- and if one of those trade-offs is that drivers are less likely to "get away" with causing a crash, then that's fine in my books.

Bias feels like a different argument entirely, though I do share your concern about it...

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