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Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

electrek.co

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Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#161

Post by stcredzero »

GordonS wrote: post #50
pupdogg wrote: post #35

Comments on the site itself are pure gold as some are pointing out the various (mostly humorous) events that are not being actively tracked with their driver-facing camera. I will try to compile this list below: - DRIVER_ON_PASSENGER_SIDE - DRIVER_MISSING - DRIVER_PICKING_BOOGERS - DRIVER_SEAT_FULLY_RECLINED - DRIVER_SNORING - DRIVER_SHAVING - DRIVER_VAPING - DRIVER_LIVESTREAMING - DRIVER_ADJUSTING_MAKEUP - DRIVER_AP…

> - DRIVER_SHAVING > - DRIVER_ADJUSTING_MAKEUP > - DRIVER_APPLYING_LIPSTICK I've actually seen drivers doing all 3 of these. The shaving (with an electric razor, obviously) I only saw once, but I frequently see women applying makeup and lipstick.

I've seen someone bury her head in the passenger-side footwell while merging into traffic while making a turn onto a busy 4-lane city thoroughfare! (No, there was no passenger.) I had to brake to let her by.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#162

Post by gravitas »

fudged71 wrote: post #46

Tesla has a history of using remote diagnostics to snitch on drivers instead of allowing investigators to do their job. It’s a valid concern that your car manufacturer will use the interior cameras to blame a crime on you. These automatic tagging features also bring to question the bias in algorithms. What does this mean for drivers with disabilities? Is it possible that a safe driver with ADHD or Turrets etc might b…

> What does this mean for drivers with disabilities?

You mention ADHD and Turrets; a leg-disabled person (e.g. paralyzed waste down) can still drive just fine, special hand-operated equipment is installed to a car to allow the hands to take over for the foot pedals.

By design this driver may be looking down frequently at their controls (let's assume not everyone is a pro driver yet and knows them by heart) which could easily be misconstrued as looking down at a mobile phone, placing immediate bias against them on video before the facts of hand-controls are revealed in court.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#163

Post by lm28469 »

hnracer wrote: post #55
lm28469 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real feature should just be a button that shifts insurance liability to Tesla for the period of the autopilot engagement and charges you a floating premium for it based on traffic conditions per mile/km while the autopilot is on. No amount of money makes up for human lives. You can pay a premium of $1mil per mile, if the car end up smashing into a family car at 80mph because the system was fooled by a shadow or…

We should delineate between resources (which has a fiat value) and fiat money. I agree that fiat money can't make up for a human life, since if money is destroyed, the remaining money supply increases in value through deflation and no actual resources are destroyed. However I disagree that a human life can't be equated with resources. Would you destroy $10 billion of value/resources in the economy to save 1 person? I…

> Would you destroy $10 billion of value/resources in the economy to save 1 person?

You can spin any arguments by framing them in such ridiculous scenarios. My comment is obviously in the context of people able to pay money to get rid of their personal responsibilities.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#164

Post by cma »

ggreer wrote: post #104
cma wrote: post #39

Since it isn't an IR camera with illumination, it won't be useable at night, right?

It's not pitch black inside of the vehicle. The giant LCD puts out some light. There are reflections from your headlights (bouncing off what's in front of you). There are street lights. There are other vehicle headlights. Your eyes have to see stuff for you to drive, so there must be photons hitting your face, and some of those get reflected. The external cameras have excellent low light sensitivity. If the internal…

Why do other people use illuminated IR cameras then? Aren't they looking for decent gaze direction detection, etc.?

Isn't it unsafe to drive with a ton of light from the giant LCD, etc.? I would have though they would dim that and/or have a night mode with inverted UI colors.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#165

Post by mikepurvis »

danudey wrote: post #126
echelon wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

This sort of technology would be great, even if the data never leaves the user's account, is never farmed by Tesla, and is never used by the autopilot. Imagine if the parent poster falls asleep at the wheel and does injure or kill someone. They could point to the fact that it's never happened before, but if the court can subpoena Tesla to get data that indicates this guy dozes off with some regularity (and can see in…

As a daily cyclist who has experienced many close calls over the years at the hands of inattentive, impatient, or unaware drivers, I would love to believe that this world is coming. But unless insurance companies can actually go to work on predicting how accident-prone a person is based on this kind of data, and raising premiums accordingly, I don't know if it will make much difference in terms of actually changing behaviour.

Like, there should already be a lot of this kind of data out there to nail drivers to the wall post-crash, and you just don't really see it happening. Even when someone is killed, everyone involved basically shrugs, says it was a fluke, and tells the family they should get over it and move on (watch for the phrase "came out of nowhere" as a sign that everyone involved has checked out of a particular case).

And how much will consumers accept a car that tattles on them about their bad behaviour? People already lose their minds over provably-effective external automated enforcement measures which rely on plate reading like red light cams and average speed cams.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#166

Post by kryogen1c »

echelon wrote: post #112
ogre_codes wrote: post #56

One of the reasons I would love to have autopilot is because I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Never so much where I've had an accident, but bad enough where I've scared myself badly. I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do . I'd vastly prefer if the car noticed I was inattentive that it notified me. My feeling is for long drives this would be a safety feature, b…

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

> You shouldn't be driving. Period.

what a stunningly pretentious and ignorant thing to say.

reasons to be tired and drive: rotating shiftwork, working multiple jobs, caring for a newborn, caring for the sick. that covers millions of people, off the top of my head, without doing any research. and those are only the most black-and-white examples. more ambiguous cases include: driving from physical activity like OP mentioned, long drives to visit friends/family, events like weddings.

if you want to make the argument that sleepy driving is more dangerous than we give it credit for, then we can talk - but thats not what you said. "You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep!" is an absurd thing to say.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#167

Post by arcticfox »

orf wrote: post #135
ZitchDog wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are human, there is always a chance of falling asleep.

That’s a truism that doesn’t add anything. You know when you’re tired, and when a comfy warm enclosure might make you fall asleep. In such situations driving like that is as bad as driving drunk. Don’t do it.

IMO your statement is the truism that isn't adding anything. Obviously people that might fall asleep shouldn't drive. But this is a matter of degree. Everyone might fall asleep and it's a risk everyone will eventually take even in a small degree.

Some people are always somewhat tired (eg sleep apnea or CFS), some people aren't tired when they start driving but become impaired at some point. Some people might have an undiagnosed condition that contributes.

There's no reason to not celebrate a simple advancement that might save people from a disaster.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#168

Post by simmanian »

serf wrote: post #144
ZitchDog wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are human, there is always a chance of falling asleep.

Would you accept that response as the reasoning of a judge after an incident? I wouldn't. I'd consider it criminal negligence to get behind the wheel of a car at times when it's impossible to make a suitable effort to drive such equipment. It's not acceptable to hop into a car drunk, either. The effects aren't really that much different between the two, response-time wise.

It's not as cut and dry as drinking and driving. A lot of times people who fall asleep on the road feel completely fine, until the moment they start falling asleep, and at this point their brain could be too asleep to tell it's falling asleep. I've dozed off on the road before and I can tell you, it's like someone just pressed the power button on my brain.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#169

Post by root_axis »

echelon wrote: post #112
ogre_codes wrote: post #56

One of the reasons I would love to have autopilot is because I have a history of dozing off at the wheel. Never so much where I've had an accident, but bad enough where I've scared myself badly. I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do . I'd vastly prefer if the car noticed I was inattentive that it notified me. My feeling is for long drives this would be a safety feature, b…

> I don't want autopilot so I can actually sleep at the wheel, I want it in case I do. You should never get behind the wheel if there's a chance you'll fall asleep! You shouldn't be driving. Period. This is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent people at risk. No technology should compensate for this. We don't design technology to help drivers under the influence feel better about their driving. Please don't get beh…

Some people don't have that privilege. Ever known someone that works two jobs trying to make ends meet? You don't have a choice except to drive home from work.

Re: Tesla hacker reveals what driver-facing camera is looking for

#170

Post by gamblor956 »

dathinab wrote: post #109
gamblor956 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some states your medical condition would prevent you from getting (or renewing) a driver's license. You need to talk to a doctor immediately because you're an active risk to other people on the road.

What if? You need you driver license for your job, without you will lose everything . You already know that this is not something the doctor can easily help you with (e.g. caused by overwork or because you already visited the doctor). Sure it's kinda wrong, but most people would just continue driving, especially in countries with no good social net where permanently losing your job can easily lead to it really messin…

You need you driver license for your job, without you will lose everything.

This is why they provide ID cards that do not grant driving privileges.

And why public transportation exists.

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