Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#331

Post by kungtotte » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 2:10 PM UTC

_7bxa wrote: post #59

As a man, I agree sharing emotions is important. Too many males in society don't have someone to cry with or listen to their problems. On the other hand, I do worry about "emotional masturbation". Simply put, sometimes we indulge ourselves in sadness/fear/anger because it makes us feel something and feeling something is better/more exhilarating/exciting than feeling nothing at all. For example, I have some insecuriti…

Talking about emotions is just one part of it. Society in general needs to be better educated and equipped with mental health tools. Things like cognitive behavioural therapy, emotional intelligence, mindfulness, transactional analysis are all ways to understand and deal with our emotions.

It's no good just blurting out whatever it is you're feeling and like you say, turn it into a masturbatory indulgence, but we should still promote talking about out feelings because suppressing them is no better than having an emotional wank.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#332

Post by LoveDeathRobots » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 2:18 PM UTC

bmarquez wrote: post #3

I participated in men's work, not specifically the ManKind Project but a closely related organization. I personally found it helpful doing weekly check-ins and having people holding me accountable to my goals. Unfortunately, the stigma regarding men sharing feelings is prevalent in western society, and it's not only the men causing it. When I told several female friends about the work they did, their response was: "A…

> I participated in men's work ..

I'm a little confused, who are the they you are referring to? People are hired on to perform tasks in return for remuneration and feelings should be reserved for outside the job. Getting emotionally involved with ones co-workers is a recipe for disaster. If you're ever invited to a workshop on diversity, don't go. James Damore and Professor Alessandro Strumia would know why.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#333

Post by _dw7s » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 2:21 PM UTC

hdfbdtbcdg wrote: post #321

goatinaboat wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I told several female friends about the work they did, their response was: "Are they gay?" It's funny. From the days of chivalry all the way to the modern patriarchy, men's behaviours have been conditioned by one overriding factor: what will impress women? I don't see that evaporating overnight. Men suppress the emotions for the simple reason that women have demonstrated a preference for men that do that, and th…

Using the word patriarchy to describe modern western society is always going to derail any conversation about men's issues into a flame war. EDIT added 'modern'.

Whenever I hear patriarchy in a conversation I can't help but start laughing as it reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarch which as growing up in an eastern orthodox family was a central part of my belief. It never helps the conversation.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#334

Post by hope-striker » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 2:24 PM UTC

aortega wrote: post #291

darkerside wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it demonstrates a kind of strength and confidence to be open about your weakness. But that's literally what a vulnerability is: a weakness.

> But that's literally what a vulnerability is: a weakness. There is a concerted effort at social engineering so powerful that now the very word meanings are challenged. Vulnerability is always, unequivocally a weakness. It's the very definition of the word. Redefining vulnerability as strength is exactly 1984's Doublespeak.

I agree, it's a very strange use of the word, and I'm confused as to how it became so popular, but concerted by whom and to what end?

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#335

Post by sebastianconcpt » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 2:36 PM UTC

bonniemuffin wrote: post #135

ericmcer wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our society will always value men who are confident, this is so much deeper to me than being scared to share your feelings because “it’s gay”. Women are attracted to confidence, employers reward confidence, hiring managers are impressed by confidence. Vulnerability and weakness are just not rewarded for men or women, but especially for men.

I want to push back on your assertion that vulnerability is inherently equivalent to weakness. Our society currently says it is, but I could equally imagine a future in which being vulnerable and honest about your feelings is seen as a feat of strength and courage -- because it DOES take a lot of courage, and even confidence, to be open and honest about your feelings.

It does require courage and even confidence but not of the masculine type. When a female exposes herself she receives an abundance of emotional support so there isn't much courage needed, just a little bit. So is easier for a female to feel confident about doing it. But if people see that you are a strong guy, then is natural for them to expect to "man up" and support yourself instead of elaborating victimist narratives. People want you to be a strong guy. Females and males. They expect it so badly that they will test that you genuinely are with jokes or challenges that if you are not psychologically strong, those can be felt like downplaying you. It feels that way because they are testing how strong your foundation is. And whatever you make of this, nothing changes the fact that weakness is profoundly unattractive and stregth is very attractive.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#336

Post by bjt2n3904 » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 2:38 PM UTC

anon9001 wrote: post #213

kaitai wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point of logic: it's a mainstream idea that there exists a type of masculinity that is toxic (strict subset) not that all masculinity is toxic.

Yeah, "toxic masculinity", but I can't name another type of masculinity that's in mainstream awareness. Can you? If you google for "masculinity", "toxic masculinity" is the first thing that comes up. I'd never heard of "victorian masculinity" before, but that and "harmful masculinity" were the only other types I could easily find. Google also helpfully suggested "The culture of masculinity and its negative impacts on…

Incredibly late reply.

I agree with your concern about "toxic masculinity". However, I think creating a positive term to coexist with it is unhelpful.

Being masculine is always a good thing. When I was young, I was taught a certain set of things about being a man. Yes, masculinity implies strength. (Not necessarily physical!) However, abuse of that strength is not masculine.

Creating a term like "altruistic masculinity" implies that masculinity is a neutral thing that can be good or bad.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#337

Post by sebastianconcpt » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

lonelappde wrote: post #68

perlgod wrote: post #37

I wouldn’t take this as a representative sample of all men. In my experience, sharing feelings makes me feel worse and substantially reduces my appeal to others. I prefer to just deal with my problems logically and avoid such navel gazing.

What is illogical about discussing feelings? Is it illogical to ask for food if you are hungry?

Depending with who you share it and how you share it.

It displays psychologically lack of preparation for hard things in life or even weakness.

So it can easily lower the Sexual Market Value of a man.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#338

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 2:47 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#339

Post by danharaj » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 2:54 PM UTC

aortega wrote: post #291

darkerside wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it demonstrates a kind of strength and confidence to be open about your weakness. But that's literally what a vulnerability is: a weakness.

> But that's literally what a vulnerability is: a weakness. There is a concerted effort at social engineering so powerful that now the very word meanings are challenged. Vulnerability is always, unequivocally a weakness. It's the very definition of the word. Redefining vulnerability as strength is exactly 1984's Doublespeak.

Lao Zi called weakness strength thousands of years ago. Maybe there's a useful idea you haven't yet understood.

Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)

#340

Post by cameronbrown » Sat, Sep 28, 2019, 3:03 PM UTC

claudiawerner wrote: post #319

cameronbrown wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's a fine opinion to have, but I doubt you'll find many people that think gender is harmful enough to be not "worth keeping around".

It's not a matter of the number of people who think (after all, there are a great number of people believing climate change isn't real and that the earth is flat) but the arguments which are presented. If someone has made an argument to the effect that gender is harmful enough to not be worth keeping around, then you can respond to that argument. However, not all opponents of the patriarchy argue that gender itself s…

I don't buy that gender is harmful at all.

> However, not all opponents of the patriarchy argue that gender itself shouldn't be kept around. In fact, that's quite a niche position.

I mean.. I'd hope so?