Whats wrong with stoicism. Feelings are fleeting in general didn't lead me to positive places. I think we should put a high value on people that can handle their own problems.
I've participated in some of this work and agree that having feeling-sharing be the top line item is misleading. Feelings are involved, but the core of it is to face what one has been avoiding, in order to become stronger and grow. There's plenty of room for stoicism in that. The way to overcome pain is to acknowledge and include it instead of denying it. The difference is huge, and most of us need help to get there—…
Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)
271–280 of 402 posts
Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)
#272I often looked around and all I've seen was men who don't need more softness but more discipline. And women past their prime who are still childless but looking to find "a meaning of life" while continuing to delude themselves that the natural purpose of breasts and vagina was sexual pleasure.
On the contrary, I found the greatest relief in training Brazilian jiu-jitsu and joining a muay thai camp for a month.
It wasn't far from a popular hippie site. But I looked around and I saw a big difference. A lot of these people on 'retreats' aren't seeking change, they are seeking a pleasurable and an EASY kind of change.
You have people there that cry a little take some drugs hug each other, some hoping to get laid and basically chill on a "retreat" thinking they're doing 'hard spiritual work.
On the contrary, I saw people in the camp that trained for 4-5 hours and woke up early morning, conquered the pain and comfort, got out of the bed and went on to train on their bruised feet. Every day.
And when you're down, your muscles are out of your oxygen and you suffocate wrestling but still have time to go you start to converse with a voice on your head that wants you to give up and you'll question a lot of things and learn a lot about who you really are but you will have to find energy where you think there's none.
This rewires your brain not whining in the woods.
No you don't need drugs and it doesn't take strength to cry in a group where everyone cries.
The reason why all the westernized forms of buddhism and all sorts modified of Eastern practices and drugs like ayahuasca gain popularity is because people look for easy "fast-food" change.
Ironically people despair in comfort but look for comfortable way to get out of it.
Everyone who tried ayahuasca or crying in woods, or some other form of 'retreat' knows the change lasts about a week.
Worse, some people get addicted to seeking this relief and continue falling back to depression actively, just so they can get back and get some hugs. I know it's over-simplified but a lot of them will get addicted to the community and other paying attention to them even though it's artificial they get more of it than in their real lives.
In better case, you'll become a bozo kind of like Jim Carrey and crash parties just to tell everyone how deluded they are and how enlightened you are ... because duh fools, can't you see what I see "we're all one."
Finally, after a decade of searching I found that classical philosophy and in fact christian philosophy, as ridiculed as it is in media and the western society, the true deep philosophy, not the shallow popularized image, it offers all of the hard work and depth none of these 'retreats' will ever provide.
Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
I did NWT and est at about the same time. It was a very stressful time. And I was very unstable. I'm bipolar, and I was teetering between mania and depression. And between anger and self-hate. From NWT, I mainly got that I was chronically insecure and fearful. And that I covered it up with aggressive edginess. I still get like that sometimes, but I'm never as unconscious about it as I was pre-NWT. It's hard to summar…
I would love to read everything you would write about this. I'm sure most people here would. I can't believe you've been doing a whole genre of activity for over 25 years that I just learned exists today!
I do recommend it. But it's crucial to keep in mind that sharing your experience of the work, and encouraging others to participate, is an integral part of it. It's true that relationships of all sorts work better with people who have done the work. So there's some self-interest in sharing.
The courses themselves generally run from Friday evening through Sunday evening. About 12 hours per day, with breaks for lunch and dinner. Back in the day, they'd run a lot later, basically until everyone got the day's distinctions. But that's mellowed since the 90s.
For example, homework assignments involve sharing with family and coworkers, and inviting them to an evening session the following Friday. At the evening session aka graduation, guests spend some time with the main group, and then go to small introduction sessions.
Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)
#274Humanity lives in a bubble, and at the edge of that bubble is an incredibly harsh reality. Someone has to stand guard, typically men. Part of staring into the void is wearing emotional armor. On occasion you should take a break, go towards the middle of the bubble, be safe and warm, take a bath, eat, drop your armor, etc. But that doesn't mean you were wrong to have worn armor at the wall. Nor does it mean the bubble…
Most of our reality is composed of humans doing things, and if you dig deep enough into why humans are doing various bad things, you'll find a lot of confused, closed up people chasing odd status markers because they need it to survive against other parties chasing odd status markers. It's an error that endlessly feeds itself, and the only escape is to cancel it somewhere - do something else.
The point is kind of moot when the people you are supposedly protecting against are of your own kind.
Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)
#275I participated in men's work, not specifically the ManKind Project but a closely related organization. I personally found it helpful doing weekly check-ins and having people holding me accountable to my goals. Unfortunately, the stigma regarding men sharing feelings is prevalent in western society, and it's not only the men causing it. When I told several female friends about the work they did, their response was: "A…
It's funny. From the days of chivalry all the way to the modern patriarchy, men's behaviours have been conditioned by one overriding factor: what will impress women? I don't see that evaporating overnight. Men suppress the emotions for the simple reason that women have demonstrated a preference for men that do that, and this is simply an example of that being made explicit. You could say "this is how the patriarchy harms men!". But it wasn't men who chose it to be this way.
Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
Stoicism is different from denial. I think denial is more what the article is about, since it talks about the higher suicide rate of men, etc.
IMO, not being suicidal is far more being in denial than the other way around. Or, in the very least, thinking that life is some gift. It totally could be, but not like this.
It's not a gift compared to what? Nonexistence?
Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)
#277The seminar was described in Details Magazine as having a "cult like subculture." (Wikipedia)
Also this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Brainwashed/comments/1tb1cb/a_justi...
Classic case of cult business.
Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
It would be great but it would only work if men as a group someone come to some better understanding. Men collectively are our own worst enemies because there is always another man willing to put aside those healthy attitudes and behaviours. Until healthy male emotional expression becomes attractive it will be rejected by men and women. Currently unless you have other very attractive features being emotionally vulner…
This is exactly why it never will be attractive, though. Because emotional detachment and opacity is how you kill and survive on the battlefield.
Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)
#279You're associating causality for whatever negative things happen to you in your life, not with your own set of circumstances, choices, or human agency, but rather with one single factor-- some ethereal 00.00001% group of conspiratorial, ostensibly straight white old men... with whatever happens to you in life.
It's an absolutely foolish conceptualization & mentality. I'm afraid life is a bit more complicated than that, dear.
Re: Men Are Waiting to Share Some Feelings (2018)
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, it demonstrates a kind of strength and confidence to be open about your weakness. But that's literally what a vulnerability is: a weakness.
Developing mental health issues and unstable personal relationships because you're unable to access and share your emotions is also a weakness that derives from the emotional suppression that men are taught is a desired masculine trait. It doesn't have to be like this. Vulnerability doesn't have to be a weakness, showing your emotions can be a masculine trait. We're not defined by, nor locked into, our traditional cu…