Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think one of the Dem senators had proposed a plan that had the floor relative to the location and the job, so in this case you'd have to offer 150-200% of what an Ethiopian translator in Alabama would recieve, before you'd be allowed to hire someone via a Visa. That general principal seems reasonable to me, and less Silicon Valley centric than just a flat floor at whatever they think is reasonable for a software de…
No doubt that would open the door to all manner of skullduggery. Infosys then opens a new operation in West Armpit, Alabama and their employees now make 150% of the going rate for Java developers there in West Armpit. It is just a weird quirk that said employees wind up doing lots of travel...
How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance
331–340 of 451 posts
Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance
#332The general direction of the Trump plan regarding H-1b is the way to go. The lottery needs to be replaced with a demand system where the highest salaries get slots. A floor of $100,000/yr should exist and adjust for inflation. Next, generously expand the green card fast track, as this category of employee, as an immigrant, is a free agent to move among companies or to start their own business. To date, as we all know…
I agree H1s should get Green Cards much faster. The visa employee should also have more flexibility in changing jobs, including when his GC is being processed. I don't like the "staple a green card" proposals for anyone who gets a STEM masters degree though. Many US Universities have already turned into masters degree mills for people trying to get visas. If Universities were allowed to sell Green Cards the problem w…
Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance
#333Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is exactly why people are railing against H1Bs so hard. How can you even suggest that an h1b be used for an entry level job? Because all your friends and former classmates can't code even if their life depended on it. I went to school in one of the best CS programs in the country. Believe me: there are all kinds of outreach programs, high school outreach programs etc. to get more Americans involved in Tech. An…
> Because all your friends and former classmates can't code even if their life depended on it. Everyone's experience varies of course. I have interviewed kids regularly from all tiers of US universities (most recently CMU). As a rule I found an international Masters student has a much better chance of failing the basic coding exam than an American-born BS graduate. Also I noticed when it comes to top students, Americ…
Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance
#334Earlier quoted context omitted.
Usually I don't give comments like yours the dignity of a reply but it seems like even the best of people in this forum have latched on to certain incorrect ideas, so I'm gonna try one more time. I wasn't saying your friends and family are incompetent, I was saying they are incompetent programmers , at least right now. I don't believe that everyone can or wants to do software engineering for a living, just like not e…
I wrote a whole long thing, but i think its much better to just illustrate my point. You claim that H1B's: 1. can and should be used for entry level positions, because it is impossible to find entry level employees for programming 2. companies are completely unable to fill programming positions with US employees. So lets investigate those claims then. Well, good place to start is probably looking at the top job title…
Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance
#335Earlier quoted context omitted.
That sounds like a problem (if it is a problem) that should be addressed by limiting the number of student visas, not by allowing people to get a valuable US education and then telling them to go home. I've worked with many people on H1Bs and student visas. Every single one of them was a valuable person to work with, and they should be citizens. Maybe universities are becoming green card mills, but in my experience e…
> I've worked with many people on H1Bs and student visas. Every single one of them was a valuable person to work with, and they should be citizens. In what industry do you work? As a software engineer, I've worked with a lot of people on H-1Bs. They are normal, nice people like anyone else I'd have no problem with them becoming citizens given the proper process, but I wouldn't say they brought more value than any Ame…
The question is what the "proper process" is for them becoming citizens, isn't it? It seems logical to me that the process should be different for someone who's graduated from a US university than an imported H1B worker (but then I'm one of the former, so I'm not unbiased.)
Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance
#336Earlier quoted context omitted.
Limiting the number of student visas will limit the amount of income for universities, though, so it will be fought at the institutional level. If someone has spent multiple years - especially their undergrad AND graduate years - in the USA, and they are interested in permanent residence, why would we tell that person to leave? If that person can select a job just like a US citizen without fear of getting deported, t…
Even if it's not a tech job?
Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance
#337Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is exactly why people are railing against H1Bs so hard. How can you even suggest that an h1b be used for an entry level job? Because all your friends and former classmates can't code even if their life depended on it. I went to school in one of the best CS programs in the country. Believe me: there are all kinds of outreach programs, high school outreach programs etc. to get more Americans involved in Tech. An…
> Because all your friends and former classmates can't code even if their life depended on it. How about a little on-the-job training? Let's be honest, the real issue isn't talent. These H1B applicants are willing to sacrifice their lives for your company whereas your average entry-level American engineer may prioritize something else.
Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance
#338Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're being intentionally obtuse. Sure, the Native Americans would have gotten along fine with bows and horses. But we are discussing the economy. The growth the US economy throughout its history was driven heavily by immigration.
> You're being intentionally obtuse Side note, but every time I see someone online accusing someone else of being "intentionally obtuse" I stop reading immediately. You know nothing of the intentions of a stranger who's obviously willing to openly discuss an issue with you.
Though, I agree obtuse is probably a poor choice of wording, perhaps I should have said persnickety.
Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance
#339Truth is, we've all known there were serious problems with the H1B visa for some time. It was clearly conceived and sold to the US public (and congress) as a program designed to bring highly skilled workers to the US who would supplement and enhance, not replace and undermine, the existing workforce.
Unfortunately, that's not what happened. Yes, it continued to be used properly some of the time, but abuses of this program were hardly rare and unusual aberrations. We ended up in repeated situations where companies where not just replacing US citizens with H1B workers, but were arm twisting the US workers into training their replacements. Stop and think about this, for a moment. This is a program designed to bring workers who have skills that you can't find among the existing workforce. If the existing workforce must train its replacement, doesn't that demonstrate that the existing workers do have these skills, and their replacements don't?
Did you not see these workers testify in front of congress, after Disney, and Edison, and even UC San Francisco did this? Some of them actually broke down. One of the few who spoke up said he was able to do so because he had no dependents and had given up on working in tech, and felt that because he could speak out, he had to.
And in all of this, we got what I felt were pretty sanctimonious essays from people like Zuckerberg, who were, as far as I can tell, really lobbying for corporate control over the US immigration system. Facebook wasn't arguing for greater freedom to immigrate, they were lobbying for the power to decide who is and isn't allowed to immigrate to the US, and the circumstances under which they are allowed to remain.
And in all of this, Trump saw an opportunity. He slammed the H1B (then he flip flopped a bit, then slammed it again). Many of the displaced Disney workers publicly supported Trump.
Now, tech leaders are terribly upset, and are taking a principled stand against Trump's actions. In many ways, I do agree with them, but I don't enjoy it. I don't enjoy being on the same side of an issue with Zuckerberg or Brin, at this point. Certainly not after Brin's involvement in the insidious wage-fixing scheme (ugh, did you see those emails?)
There's reason so many Americans were so enraged. I don't at all agree with their choice of president, but why now? Why did it take a Trump administration to get tech leaders, along with their supporters in congress like Zoe Lofgen, to start seriously criticizing this very corrupt program?
Tech leaders: It's time to take some inventory here, folks. As you oppose this new administration, think about what role you might have played in utterly alienating the US public. And be clear, we do need to welcome top talent from around the globe. By supporting a self-serving and corrupt program, and implying that those who opposed you were "anti-immigrant" (when in fact many of us just opposed corporate control over the immigration system, and couldn't support a program that give employers this kind of power over immigrant's lives), you played right into the hands of people who started to see this "anti-immigrant" card as nothing more than a cynical, corporate ploy.
Things are really bad now, and tech leaders, in my opinion, had a great deal to do with it. I think Zuck's and Brin's speeches against Trump are about as helpful as Madonna's, at this point.
Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance
#340The general direction of the Trump plan regarding H-1b is the way to go. The lottery needs to be replaced with a demand system where the highest salaries get slots. A floor of $100,000/yr should exist and adjust for inflation. Next, generously expand the green card fast track, as this category of employee, as an immigrant, is a free agent to move among companies or to start their own business. To date, as we all know…
Yes, like any government program, it is been abused but there are more than enough high paying jobs available in Tech. Indians are one of the richest demographics in USA. If Indians are such a low wage misers, what happens overnight ?
Only solution of h1b visa is to allow free movement of switching jobs. Right now a h1b worker is practically a slave of his/her employer which companies like TCS, Infosys exploits freely.