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iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

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Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#321

Post by pdimitar »

mclehman wrote: post #320
pdimitar wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I want it off I’ve got to dig through Settings. Yeah: press Home button, tap Settings, tap Wi-Fi, tap the toggle. A lot of digging indeed. Like, come on.

In that case, why have the quick access menu at all?

They serve two different purpose -- the quick access only disconnects you from the Wi-Fi network / Bluetooth devices (all except Apple services / devices) and the settings toggle stops the radios whatsoever.

I'll again say it's not intuitive at all and it's not communicated well (if at all), but for us here that go the extra mile to research, having two separate such options is handy.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#322

Post by digi_owl »

hesarenu wrote: post #159
davb wrote: post #39

In general, iOS isn’t very friendly to users who favour 3G/4G over WiFi. I’ve got unlimited data on my LTE plan but very shaky WiFi at home. I can’t start an iCloud backup without WiFi and can’t download apps or updates over a certain size. And now WiFi miraculously turns itself back on after I turn it off in Control Center (as I’ve done for some time). If I want it off I’ve got to dig through Settings. Changing defa…

Apple (and Google, in their own way) seem to think they can push users towards a lowest common denominator use case. It just doesn’t work. - But this is not that case though. My non tech friends expect the wifi to off when its off. That would be the lowest common denominator.

This is a mentality that is making its way though the whole of consumer IT, even the FOSS world is not immune in their chase for marketshare...

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#323

Post by macpete »

jachee wrote: post #165
trowawee wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, I can. It's just an annoying pain in the ass, now, rather than a simple toggle. Which was a stupid decision on Apple's part.

Try "Hey Siri, turn off WiFi." Five words isn't much beyond a simple toggle. :)

Ironically you possibly need WiFi (since siri operates remotely) to turn it off.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#324

Post by theobon »

lucaspiller wrote: post #147
zwily wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish the “Do Not Disturb While Driving” would re-enable itself after the car starts moving again. I lie and tell it I’m not driving all the time at a light to select the next podcast.

Yeah this is a bit of a weird feature. I understand it’s a kind of mental barrier to prevent you using your phone while driving, but it’s weird you can’t keep it on and still use your phone - especially when you aren’t moving as you say.

Every jurisdiction I'm aware of considers using your phone while stopped at a red light the same as while driving. Apple enabling this behaviour within a feature specifically designed to support safe driving laws would be illogical.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#325

Post by pdimitar »

digi_owl wrote: post #69
davb wrote: post #39

In general, iOS isn’t very friendly to users who favour 3G/4G over WiFi. I’ve got unlimited data on my LTE plan but very shaky WiFi at home. I can’t start an iCloud backup without WiFi and can’t download apps or updates over a certain size. And now WiFi miraculously turns itself back on after I turn it off in Control Center (as I’ve done for some time). If I want it off I’ve got to dig through Settings. Changing defa…

Sadly the default assumption in IT these days is "users are dumb sheep". Its not just Apple or Google, MS is doing it as well, and I see more and more of it in the FOSS world.

Man, most people I happen to talk with casually don't even know the concept of Android and iOS. To them it's iPhone, Samsung, Google, LG, Sony, HTC etc. They have no idea that most non-iPhone devices share a similar OS. Nor do they care.

Also, most never even look at warning / question popup texts and impatiently press "Yes", "OK", "I agree" buttons.

Maybe calling them "dumb sheep" is too much but they aren't intellectually illuminated individuals either.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#326

Post by mygo »

madeofpalk wrote: post #284
golangnews wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't use 3D touch to turn off wifi. According to Apple you have go into settings to do so. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT208086 The problems with this change are: It is surprising - grey buttons usually mean disabled permanently, not disabled except for some uses or for some indeterminate length of time. It changes established behaviour without a clear warning to the user. It is inconsistent - disabling blue…

> It is inconsistent - disabling bluetooth now disconnects from all devices (except Apple ones!) I was surprised by this, so I just tested it. Tapping the button immediately disconnected from my Apple bluetooth AirPods.

I also just tested it. When I click off the bluetooth button it says "disconnecting from [apple watch name]". I don't know if the writer of that article actually tested this stuff, but it clearly disconnects from my apple watch (and says so) when I turn off bluetooth from the slide up menu.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#328

Post by jsjohnst »

caf wrote: post #188
jsjohnst wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At this point I’m not sure there’s a need for normal users to actually turn off Wi-Fi. Or anyone who doesn’t want to be tracked by random retailers. I worked for one such company, so I know intimately how it works, including how MAC address randomization doesn’t actually work in the real world at completely obscuring your device.

Would you mind sharing the details of how MAC address randomization is being defeated in the real world?

@pmontra already provided you with one good link, let me know if you'd like more info. Happy to share peer reviewed articles as well as what I can from the work I did.

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#329

Post by new299 »

gervase wrote: post #313
new299 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, I feel like this is a bigger issue than the privacy angle too. For privacy/security, I feel like it's only really going to help to turn off all radios (airplane mode).

Just so you know, this feature change also affects airplane mode; that is, when you turn on airplane mode, only the cellular modem turns off. The WiFi and Bluetooth radios remain on if they're currently connected to something, only turning off completely if not connected.

ok, that seems somewhat confusing having googled it [1].

But I guess at least the UI shows that Wifi and Bluetooth are on. I assume that if after activating airplane mode you disconnect bluetooth and wifi from the control center, it really does turn all radios off...

[1] http://www.redmondpie.com/new-in-ios-11-airplane-mode-no-lon...

Re: iOS 11's Misleading "Off-Ish" Setting for Radios Is Bad for User Security

#330

Post by servilio »

davb wrote: post #20
Terretta wrote: post #6

> In an attempt to keep you connected to Apple devices and services, iOS 11 compromises users' security. No. It is in an attempt to resolve the real loss of money experienced by everyday users who turn off WiFi when it’s flakey and then forget to turn it back on, costing them cash on their cellular data plan. (And the very real frustration when things don’t work they expect to work, and they don’t know why.) Meanwhil…

> It is in an attempt to resolve the real loss of money experienced by everyday users who turn off WiFi when it’s flakey and then forget to turn it back on, costing them cash on their cellular data plan. Is the solution here not simply to turn off mobile data when you don’t want to use it, if you’re on such a restrictive mobile plan? The fact is, the behaviour changed in a way that wasn’t made clear at all. That WiFi…

> Is the solution here not simply to turn off mobile data when you don’t want to use it, if you’re on such a restrictive mobile plan?

Or add warning and cut-off thresholds, isn't that alredy possible?

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