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China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

wsj.com

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Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#311

Post by petesergeant »

dataviz1000 wrote: post #193
neilv wrote: post #45

This is unfortunate, but understood. I worked in a university research spinout US-China multinational AI hardware startup, and (without getting into confidential information, but only speaking of general engineering practice) I can mention that both nations' government concerns could be barriers. And some rules can be counterproductive for the one making the rule, even from a competitive perspective -- not even turni…

> they are natural friends December, flying out of Thailand I spent one night in Bangkok. Looking for a bar late for one or two drinks after I settled into my hotel I saw two guys, one Chinese and other Russian, stumbling out of a building a few doors down from my hotel. I asked, "Is that a bar or a brothel? I'm looking for a bar." They laughed saying they were looking for a bar too and it was a brothel which is why…

> Is that a bar or a brothel

In many parts of Thailand it's really not an either/or situation

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#312

Post by ninetyninenine »

kasey_junk wrote: post #27

The interesting thing in this article isn’t that China is telling people to avoid the US for national security reasons. Many states, including the US have similar guidance to people who work in jobs sensitive to national security. What’s interesting is that China is viewing AI tech as a technology vital to their security.

No it’s most likely the US sees it as vital and has thus exercised its espionage and other resources in this area and China has compromised an asset.

Thus China knows there’s activity in this area and has issued a warning. Other than that the technology isn’t vital it’s more hype.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#313

Post by ninetyninenine »

gyomu wrote: post #63
kasey_junk wrote: post #27

The interesting thing in this article isn’t that China is telling people to avoid the US for national security reasons. Many states, including the US have similar guidance to people who work in jobs sensitive to national security. What’s interesting is that China is viewing AI tech as a technology vital to their security.

The real reason why states are pouring billions into AI isn't to generate silly emoji, help people rewrite their emails, or make a web app without learning how to code. It's for autonomous drone warfare. Invading a neighboring nation doesn't seem too appealing if it means sending tens/hundreds of thousands of your young people (a resource that's getting scarcer and scarcer most everywhere in the world) to the meat gr…

Bro ai via programming with people is already good enough to fight wars with drones in the air. You don’t even need LLMs or machine learning black boxes.

Basically the reason is because there’s so little noise in the air. If it’s black and metal and flying and doesn’t match the iff signal than simple “if then” logic can verify it’s a bogey.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#314

Post by maxglute »

ForTheKidz wrote: post #302
maxglute wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>who's going to do it and give it away for free Why not Deepseek? Sometimes rich tech bros have billion dollar hobbies instead of billion dollar yachts or billion dollar foundations. Just takes a few not monetarily motivated but has more money then sense visionaries types willing to turn their very, very expensive hobbies into charities. Now if we enter the 100s of billions / trillions territory...

facebook has also taken the approach of undercutting and betting on subdizing their other products. It's a risky bet to assume the llm tech itself will last long as a moat.

Depends on if DeepSeek is llm business foremost VS hobby founder is willing to sink obscene resources into simply for personal fulfillment and the lulz. Maybe deepseek will become the core business / primary money maker vs highflyer hedgefund. Or maybe Deepseek continues to be expensive yacht or car collection where protecting the moat doesn't matter. Maybe founder gets more fulfillment doing the work and inspiring others i.e. Liang was pretty explicit he wanted to see a world where PRC innovates and contributes to global standards instead of merely following. In the meantime, seems like Deepseek isn't loss-making, so it's not even prohibitive hobby yet. But it's not outside of realm of possiblity that rich bro simply dgaf about returns on passion project funded by his primary income stream.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#315

Post by hustwindmaple1 »

klipt wrote: post #260
throwawayq3423 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Urban life in China, excluding pandemic times, is better than urban life in the states. What data do you have for this conclusion?

Great public transit. Affordable housing. Huge variety of delicious food. Low crime. People who care enough about the social good to wear masks in crowded places during a pandemic.

Housing is definitely not easily affordable. But the other points are valid.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#316

Post by tw1984 »

tokioyoyo wrote: post #306
tw1984 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding? Guess why most those recently emerged Chinese high tech companies (DeepSeek, Game Science, Unitree etc) are all located in Hangzhou? Because property prices are insane in tier-1 Chinese cities like Shanghai which is just 200km away from Hangzhou. You know it is a huge ponzi scheme when even those well paid high tech engineers couldn't afford a modest apartment in those major cities. $3m USD buys you…

I’m not sure there’s any point in arguing, because everyone’s priorities are subjective. Public safety, convenience, unlimited amount of options for basically anything are stuff that people pay premiums for. I still consider Tokyo superior to T1 Chinese cities, but Shanghai is really not that far behind.

> Public safety, convenience, unlimited amount of options for basically anything are stuff that people pay premiums for.

by paying 100 years of local average salary for a modest apartment in a not that desirable location? that is not "pay premiums", that is modem slavery.

stop spreading your misinformation, life in China is like the Nightmare mode of DOOM2.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#317

Post by bee_rider »

potatoman22 wrote: post #99
empressplay wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. The Chinese AI is called DeepSeek FFS -- think about that one for a minute.

I've thought about it and don't understand what you're saying

Maybe the comment is implying something along the lines of seeking missiles or seek and destroy? I don’t think it is very obvious though.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#318

Post by scrollaway »

sepositus wrote: post #144
scrollaway wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an EU-based employer, I'm seeing a post-WW2 soviet vs usa style defection of engineers between USA and Europe. By the way, if anyone US-based is in this situation and wants to "defect" to an EU-job, send me a message, I can help you.

Funny, I’m literally seeing the opposite. Had two people move from the EU last year due to free speech concerns.

And how are they doing now?

Anyway I’m sure people can be in whatever bubble their algorithmic news gives them. At the end of the day, today, it’s shameful to be American and many of my American friends feel that shame right now. The same cannot be said for most European countries.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#320

Post by adrianN »

Philpax wrote: post #284
ForTheKidz wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are models with open training as well as weights. It's not chatgpt, but that trained model can be fully audited and reused without further training. I think for most daily use I'd be fine using a greatly outdated model. Open source has always relied on contributors eating costs—even just the opportunity cost of contributing time. FLOSS software is slow, much slower than VC-funded explosive growth, but it's hard…

It'll get increasingly difficult for open models to keep up with proprietary frontier models as the costs involved increase. Yes, there will always be older open models available, but at some point, they just won't be as competitively useful. Your code assistant that can output a file's worth of code will pale in comparison to systems that can create entire projects in seconds. If it costs billions to reproduce the l…

That assumes optimistic scaling behavior between money spent on training and performance. Surely there are diminishing returns.
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