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China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

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Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#271

Post by j7ake »

throwawaymaths wrote: post #116
yieldcrv wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of developed countries like across Europe and Singapore dont have the same geopolitical history with China as the US does, as such the Sinophobia isn’t really there Many people really enjoyed Shanghai and other cities and are recipients of expansive social safety nets of China If you’re middle class and in a big city or some of the planned cities, China is fine, not without its difficulty of adjusting to, some…

> expansive social safety nets of China can you provide more detail on what you mean by this? Are there labor laws preventing 996, for example? what kind of medical care is there?

Excellent medical and dental care for ridiculously cheap. On par with countries like Germany

If you work, you contribute to a fund that you have access to if you lose your job.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#272

Post by csomar »

somelamer567 wrote: post #224
Fricken wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US stole it's IP as well when it was behind. Sam Slater was known as "The Founder of the American Factory System" in the US. In the UK he was known as "Slater the Traitor", because he stole some very important IP. Adam Smith wasn't a big fan of IP either. He was all about owning the means of production. China was taking notes. The dog ate America's homework.

[flagged]

It is not a crime in China and morality is relative and no one has the moral high ground (unless god shows up). That being said, lots of IP was transferred to China willingly to access its market. It’s shortsightedness not theft that broke the empire.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#273

Post by YZF »

ande-mnoc wrote: post #264
YZF wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know what overseas means and I realize Microsoft has teams all over the globe. But Microsoft is a US company and by working there as a researcher you are trained and have access to know-how that is technically American in origin. The intent of the original "boast" is to somehow claim the know-how comes solely out of China. It's boasting about China's abilities to generate cutting edge technology without reliance on…

> The intent of the original "boast" is to somehow claim the know-how comes solely out of China. No, it isn’t. It’s likely they mean they haven’t studied aboard or have worked in the U.S., which has been long seen as a prerequisite to innovate in the tech industry there. My original comment was merely citing what they think. It’s unfortunate that you cannot tell the difference between describing and endorsing.

Here's the sequence:

>> Why does the US still allow Chinese nationals to study at its universities and work at its companies? Seems like a big risk that cutting edge research and trade secrets will go to America’s main adversary. Industrial espionage by China has a long history, and China has more valuable things to steal from America than the other way.

> I have good news for you. DeepSeek openly bragged that none of its people have “overseas experience”. They are all local talents.

...

> My original comment was merely citing what they think

Fair enough. So my comment is towards what they think? What is your position?

EDIT: Do you feel that DeepSeek open bragging about none of its people having "overseas experience" is simply to say they have not been overseas or that the technology originates in China? I'll admit I'm not down to the nuance of how studies overseas are viewed in China.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#274

Post by throwaway2037 »

ty6853 wrote: post #162
gamblor956 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if given the recent "moral" loss of US, we will see a post-WW2 Soviet vs USA style defection of scientists & engineers between USA and China? No. The US will experience a brain drain to Europe, Canada, and Australia, but not to China. Trump still has a ways to go to match the excesses of the Xi regime.

Most of Europe (notable exception france), Canada, and Australia will happily betray their own citizens to extradition to foreign countries. If things get bad enough that science immigration becomes 'defection' they'd be safer from the US in China.

Are you OK with a person committing a violent crime in a foreign country, then returning home to a country that "protects" them against extradition? I never understand the pushback against extradition. You can extradite carefully. Also, "most of Europe", Canada, and Australia are highly functional democracies. If extradition is so bad, why haven't they outlawed it?

Also, most people overlook the fact that, "any French citizen who commits a crime according to the French law, even abroad, can be prosecuted in France." So that makes extradition moot in my view.

Quote source: https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-reasoning-behind-Frances-law...

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#275

Post by Philpax »

smeeger wrote: post #247
Philpax wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest autopsy came down pretty firmly on it being a suicide. Even if it could've been an assassination, there isn't much motive: his claims were about copyright violation, which neither OpenAI or the government would much care about in an arms race.

the autopsy that his mother says was really strange and done by the police who acted in a bizarre manner? or has there been another one? and as for motive, you are literally incorrect. if there is a massive copyright precedent set in the courts the intelligence community would not be able to overturn that. and its likely to happen because its legally sound… if i were the cia i would be doing everything in my power to…

Yes: https://www.mercurynews.com/2025/02/14/autopsy-openai-whistl...

If it becomes a natsec concern, the government will simply ignore or redefine the laws. The current US government has already demonstrated that the rule of law is a mere suggestion.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#276

Post by tw1984 »

tokioyoyo wrote: post #96
tz18 wrote: post #15

No, this is just about keeping people from defecting and taking secrets / cash with them. Many Chinese people working for state controlled companies or similar (schoolteachers were one ridiculous example I think) in super mundane jobs have their passports taken away or exit bans for "national security" reasons.

One note, if you’re working for a top AI company in China, your quality of life other than work hours is already good enough to not to want to leave. It’s not 1990s/2000s anymore. Urban life in China, excluding pandemic times, is better than urban life in the states. The same applies to other sectors as well. Top talent is genuinely valued in China.

Are you kidding?

Guess why most those recently emerged Chinese high tech companies (DeepSeek, Game Science, Unitree etc) are all located in Hangzhou? Because property prices are insane in tier-1 Chinese cities like Shanghai which is just 200km away from Hangzhou. You know it is a huge ponzi scheme when even those well paid high tech engineers couldn't afford a modest apartment in those major cities.

$3m USD buys you a 3 bedroom apartment in Shanghai next to a noisy main road, you have unlimited free supply of all types of pollutions. PM2.5 pollution was about 100 yesterday, any self respecting medical professional would suggest you to wear a mask when going outdoors in such environment well known for causing lung cancer. By moving to Hangzhou, you ONLY need to pay $1.5-$2m for the same shit.

Oh, btw, prices above are after the 30% drop. Just imagine how stupid it was before the crash. Of course you can jump up and lecture me how affordable it is to just spend like $1m to secure a nice family apartment of 40square meters built 60 years ago with disgusting everything inside of it.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#277

Post by throwawayq3423 »

Spivak wrote: post #254
throwawayq3423 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Urban life in China, excluding pandemic times, is better than urban life in the states. What data do you have for this conclusion?

I think a good chunk of America had their "Soviets seeing an American supermarket" moment on Red Note when they got to see what city life is actually like in China from the perspective of regular people.

Red Note is Instagram for rich kids. If China managed to frame their upper class as ordinary, good for them. Propaganda win for their regime.

Not sure why we are making that mistake here.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#278

Post by throwawayq3423 »

mandmandam wrote: post #169
throwawayq3423 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Urban life in China, excluding pandemic times, is better than urban life in the states. What data do you have for this conclusion?

Try YouTube. Just use your eyes.

I did. When I went to China and left the major cities all I saw was rows of high rises next to train stations with nothing around them.

Funny, that's never on YouTube.

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#279

Post by throwaway2037 »

Fricken wrote: post #228
gamblor956 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if given the recent "moral" loss of US, we will see a post-WW2 Soviet vs USA style defection of scientists & engineers between USA and China? No. The US will experience a brain drain to Europe, Canada, and Australia, but not to China. Trump still has a ways to go to match the excesses of the Xi regime.

I'm Canadian, we have an estimated 250k-300k citizens living in China. All the ones I've spoken with were pretty impressed with the place. For comparison, Canada has 73k citizens living in the UK, 90k in France, and 800k in the US.

Do you count Hongkong as part of Mainland China? Most surveys do not. (The line is certainly more blury than 5 years ago.)

I found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_diaspora

    Hong Kong 300,000 Zhang and DeGolyer, 2011
    China 19,990 Chinese Census 2010

Re: China tells its AI leaders to avoid U.S. travel over security concerns

#280

Post by throwawayq3423 »

klipt wrote: post #260
throwawayq3423 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Urban life in China, excluding pandemic times, is better than urban life in the states. What data do you have for this conclusion?

Great public transit. Affordable housing. Huge variety of delicious food. Low crime. People who care enough about the social good to wear masks in crowded places during a pandemic.

Could say the same about Vietnam, or Thailand, or anywhere in SE Asia.
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