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Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

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Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#301

Post by puffoflogic »

davidguetta wrote: post #217

Even Karpov said he played badly in the Sinquefield game. Personally I think Hans didn't cheat in this game ...... but: my best theory is that Carlsen is afraid to play against people who HAVE cheated once, because there mere thought that he COULD be cheating right now is enough to derail him from clear thinking. I think this because it's exactly what he declared in an interview ABOUT cheating on 2021. So basically h…

I like this explanation because unlike all the other theories that have been rehashed in this thread from previously, it actually explains the most recent game. Possibly Carlsen thought he was psychologically capable of playing this game and then discovered after a couple moves that he wasn't.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#302

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

wheresmycraisin wrote: post #130
H8crilA wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Just because of reputation? What are you even talking about... Have you ever heard of "innocent until proven guilty"? The burden of proof is on the accuser. We should be shown evidence, or Carlsen should apologize.

Yes, when it's something that's unprovable (if done well enough), reputation can play a role, esp. if it's golden boy v.s. admitted past cheater. And Carlsen didn't technically accuse him and Niemann is not technically on trial, so "innocent until proven guilty" is irrelevant. Magnus's goal seems to be to get Niemann disinvited from tournaments. He's taking such drastic measures for a reason at the expense of his own…

> Magnus's goal seems to be to get Niemann disinvited from tournaments.

In other words, he is bullying Niemann using his status and renown as a world champion. Nice.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#303

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

threatofrain wrote: post #181
FartyMcFarter wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see what's wrong with Magnus throwing his points away to satisfy his preference. Losing games on purpose is unsportsmanlike. Now, if Magnus has good reason to believe that he's just countering bad sportmanship with his own brand of it, that could perhaps be justified in some circumstances. But to the general audience, it makes chess look really bad.

Magnus & Nakamura and a handful of other grandmasters are basically the only reason why chess is not dead to the public; I'm not sure thriving is in the cards ever again for chess. Chess has a lot more to be grateful for with Magnus than not. That's what Magnus is to the "general audience" with regards to chess, and it's going to take a lot for Magnus to be a net negative to chess. We are only making drama because Ma…

> Magnus & Nakamura and a handful of other grandmasters are basically the only reason why chess is not dead to the public

Not really, at all. That TV series and the COVID pandemic have way more to do with current chess popularity than Magnus & Nakamura. The playing public doesn't really care who the champion is, they play with themselves and only very few follow every game on major tournaments. As a spectator sport, chess is beyond boring, even worse than baseball (seriously, how come people in the US are so into watching baseball??!)

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#304

Post by LegitShady »

Beltalowda wrote: post #241
KingMob wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's admitted to cheating in the past. The Bayesian priors for him currently cheating are not the same as for other people.

> He's admitted to cheating in the past. From what I can find: "he did admit that he had cheated in the past – first as a 12-year-old when a friend gave him some help in an online tournament and then as a 16-year-old playing unrated games while he was streaming." A 12-year old cheating in a tournament! We cannot ever trust this man!

chess.com disagrees, and says the Niemann's cheating is greater in both the amount and seriousness of cheating that has occured.

https://twitter.com/chesscom/status/1568010971616100352

>"Dear Chess Community,

>The last few days have been tumultuous for many in the chess community. At this time we have reached out to Hans Niemann to explain our decision to privately remove him from chess.com and our events. We have shared detailed evidence with him concerning our decision, including information that contradicts his statements regarding the amount and seriousness of his cheating on Chess.com. We have invited Hans to provide an explanation and response with the hope of finding a resolution where Hans can again participate on Chess.com. We want nothing more than to see the best chess players in the world succeed in the greatest events. We will always act to protect the integrity of the game that we all love."

Hans Niemann is not being honest.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#306

Post by tromp »

vintermann wrote: post #282
tromp wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are playing with a handicap, you have to make overplays Some players may feel they have to, but others manage to refrain from making overplays, and just keep playing moves they consider objectively best, patiently waiting for their weaker opponent to make big mistakes. Usually such patience does get rewarded.

For small handicaps, maybe you can see it that way. But it's harder to call a move "objectively best" when you're technically in a dead lost position.

With objectively best I refer to maximizing territory. A much stronger player of course realizes they're in a technically lost position throughout most of the game, but that doesn't make resigning objectively best.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#307

Post by davidguetta »

systemvoltage wrote: post #114
frankjr wrote: post #64

More context: https://old.reddit.com/r/LivestreamFail/comments/xii9dz/cham...

Magnus has made spectacular blunders of embarrassing levels in the past and after world champion title. It just shows he is human. Chess players cannot be just treated like exact subjects in an experiment, especially with a sample size of 1 and std deviation of infinity. Noise factors are too many and sample size needed to account for that is huge. Also current rating is not a reliable measure. Many young players are…

You can use the rating computed on a shorter time period

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#308

Post by kurupt213 »

swores wrote: post #253
kurupt213 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not the rule, it’s a rather modern exception.

The word "rule" doesn't imply how old or recent it is (most rules aren't things like "rules of physics", they're things that governments, parents, bosses, teachers etc. make up quite regularly). The rule (in this case, rule of law) that forbids slavery is pretty modern, surely that doesn't make it any less important?

Rule also implies universality, which is how I interpreted it here. I was saying this is a new, ‘limited’ belief.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#309

Post by [deleted] »

concinds wrote: post #186
eschatology wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just a principle, used in some laws in some legal systems in some countries — nothing dictates all accusations made on the planet has to abide by "innocent until proven guilty" principle. Nothing dictates that burden of proof is always on the accuser, especially in the internet where there isn't really any authority or agreements on subjects like this. It's just a statement/opinion by grandparent and it baffles…

> If the chess community decides to trust Magnus and his credentials without any proof, that's their prerogative, the concept of criminal innocence doesn't come into play at all here. "Innocent until proven guilty" is not just a legal concept but a social norm. I'm a big Carlsen fan, but that same logic, applied to other domains, has led to witch-hunts throughout history, or character assassination/reputational damag…

[deleted]

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#310

Post by moralestapia »

cupofjoakim wrote: post #16
kareemsabri wrote: post #6

Kind of a basic question but how do you cheat at chess, especially "over the board" ?

There are many ways. You need outside help for everything though - you need someone to input the current board state into some kind of chess engine, and then relay the best possible move back to you somehow. There have been cases where someone has hidden a phone in the bathrooms to use for either communicating or inputting into a chess engine themselves. In Niemanns case people have joked about vibrating anal beads c…

And all of those are extremely easy to prevent/spot in a tournament setting. Carlsen is just throwing a tantrum here, IMO. Sore loser.
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