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Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

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Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#281

Here's a link to try it https://www.codeweavers.com/crossover/download

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What advertisement?

Codeweavers is literally the company behind Wine. Without them project would never reach point where it is now.

Codeweavers developers historically been authors of 2/3 (and likely even more in past) commits in Wine.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#282
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No other operating system works like this. Supporting older versions of an OS or runtime with a compiler toolchain a standard expectation of developers.

Plenty of operating systems work like this. Just not highly commercial ones because proprietary software is the norm on those. From a bit of research it looks like FreeBSD for example only provides a stable ABI within minor versions and I imagine if you build something for FreeBSD 14 it won’t work on 13. Stable ABI literally only benefits software where the user doesn’t have the source. Any operating system which ass…

> Stable ABI literally only benefits software where the user doesn’t have the source

Stable ABI benefits everyone. If I need to recompile a hundred packages with every OS update instead of doing real work then there's something seriously wrong with my OS.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, early wine (when I first tried it) wasn't very usable, and for gaming specifically. So if you were an early enthusiast adopter, you might've just experienced their growing pains. Also, I assume some Windows version jumps didn't make things easy for Wine either lol

It took some futzing. The crusty PlayOnLinux UI is permanently etched into my brain.

Transgaming! It worked for ons or two games for me, bit it was glorious.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#284
post #16

Wine is a project that I've grown a near-infinite level of respect for. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that a lot of the work for Wine is boring and thankless. Digging through and trying to get exact parity with both the documented and undocumented behavior of Windows for the past 30 years doesn't sound fun, but it's finding every little weird edge case that makes Wine a viable product. The fact that Wine runs…

I avoided using Wine (and Linux for gaming generally) for years on the sole basis that I assumed what they were trying to do was impossible to do well. Occasionally I’d try wine for some simple game and be impressed it worked at all, but refused to admit to myself that it was something I could rely on. (This was many years ago and I freely admit today that I was wrong.)

I have been using Wine on Mac for fifteen years now since I moved to Mac for work. There's always been a couple Windows programs I just can't seem to replace fully, namely RegexBuddy, and I continue to run them in Wine to this day. Everything has gotten so much better as the years have gone on, that this is a perfectly acceptable solution.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

90s Windows ran inside of DOS, and you can run e.g. Windows 98 games (through Windows itself) in DOSBox. Look up exowin9x where they're trying to compile all of the necessary configs for one-click launchers.

I didn't think that regular DOSBox had support for stuff like 3dFX does it? Or other weird APIs? I had to use PCem to get support for that stuff.

I tried running the elder scrolls Redguard, on wine, which launches windows version of dosbox with glide support. Redguard is a weird beast which is installed only with windows installer, but the actual game runs in dos mode

Everything works but the frame rate isn't great

If anyone knows a good Redguard setup for Linux please mail me, you can guess my mail easily. Now I just run the gog version

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#286

Wine might be oddly self-defeating. Broad game support on Linux increases the viability of Linux as a desktop, which increases market share, which may result in developers creating Linux ports as a 1st class concern, which don't need Wine to run.

[flagged]

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is interesting that these are harder to get working than games. Games are mostly just doing their own thing, only interacting with the system for input & output. MS Office is using every single corner of Windows: every feature in the XML libraries, tons of .NET type stuff, all the OLE and COM and typelib and compound storage features, tons of Explorer integrations, auto-updating stuff via Windows patching mechan…

Yeah, people forget that MS Office, and Excel and Outlook in particular, are the real foundation of Microsoft's vendor lock-in on the desktop.

Having worked in non-swe enterprise for two decades I would argue that this is less true today than it was 10 years ago. It used to be that new hires would come with a basic knowledge of windows and office, but that's no longer the case. At the same time, you have things like Smartsheets and so on, which are more popular, at least with our employees, than Excel and everyone seems to hate Outlook these days. I don't think it was ever really the case though. What Microsoft sells to enterprise is governance, and they really don't have any competition in this area.

Being in the European energy sector we're naturally looking into how we can replace every US tech product with an EU/FOSS one. It's actually relatively easy to buy the 365 experience through consultants which will setup a NextCloud, Libre/Only Office, Proton and a teams replacement I can't for the life of me remember the name of. Beneath it there is a mix of Identity Management systems, often based around Keycloak, at least for now. It works, from what we've seen in Germany (specificlaly with their military) it's also possible to roll it out relatively quickly. It's all the "other" stuff that gets murky. There isn't a real alternative to AD/Entra, yet, from a governance perspective. There are great tech solutions which does the same thing, but they require a lot of IT man hours. Something the public sector is always going to be more willing to deal with than the private sector. If we collectively decided that trains in Denmark should be free for passengers, then that would happen. You can't do that in a private business, though security obviously does factor into it.

This is the general story really. Microsoft's copilot studio is relatively new, and it's probably been flying under the radar in a lot of tech circles because it's basically what power automate always wished it could be. Having used it to build a HR flow, where an AI model will receive the applications, read them, auto-reply to irrelevant ones, create a teams site with files and the relevant people for the relevant applications, and invite the applicant to their first appointment. Well... I gotta say that I'm not sure what we have that's an alternative to that. It took me a couple of hours to build it, and it frankly works better than I thought it would. Granted, I did know the tool because I had previously done a PoC where I build a teams agent which "took over" my teams interactions. Everyone noticed because it spelled correctly and wasn't capable of posting Warhammer 40k ORK meme's in any form of quality, but it was frightenly easy. What Microsoft sells in this area is again the governance of it all. You can do these things because of how EntraID lets you connect services seamlessly with a few clicks. While behind the scenes all of those clicks are only available to you because your IT department control them... Again... without hundreds of manhours.

I'm sure we'll eventually get there, but it'll likely come down to change management. Because even if you're willing to retrain your IT operations crew, it's not likely that they will want to leave the Microsoft world where they are well paid and job-secure. Well, maybe I'm in a cheese bell, but I've never met an Azure/Microsoft IT person who would want to work with something else, and having been forced to work a little bit with it behind the scenes, I sort of get it... well not really.

Which boils down to why Microsoft has always been good with enterprise customers. The decision makers in your organisation will listen to everything, but their own IT departments will often sort of automatically recommend Microsoft products and at the end of the day, it'll all boil down to risk. Which is what Microsoft really sells... risk-mitigation. Sure their licenses are expensive, but is it really more expensive than losing your entire IT staff? (this isn't an actual question I'm asking, it's what goes through the considerations.)

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#289
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, early wine (when I first tried it) wasn't very usable, and for gaming specifically. So if you were an early enthusiast adopter, you might've just experienced their growing pains. Also, I assume some Windows version jumps didn't make things easy for Wine either lol

The hype/performance mismatch was significant in the 2000s for Wine. I’m not sure if there was any actual use case aside from running obscure business software. Yes, there was “the list” but there was no context and it was hard to replicate settings. I think everyone tried running a contemporary version of Office and Photoshop, saw the installer spit out cryptic messages and just gave up. Enough time has passed with…

I remember it being surprisingly decent for games back then. Then a lot of games moved to Steam, which made it way harder to run them in Wine. Of course there was later Proton for that, but not on Mac.

Re: Wine 11 rewrites how Linux runs Windows games at kernel with massive speed gains

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be surprised if Wine eventually becomes more stable than Windows.

Wine actually does run some ancient Windows games better than Windows 11 itself.

Wine is also the reason why Windows software has more longevity on Mac than Mac software. Like, 32-bit didn't get deprecated in Wine.
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