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Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

reuters.com

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Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#281

Post by zmgsabst »

csomar wrote: post #168
alephnerd wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the 2000s, depending on how overtly conservative you were and who was in govenenent (coups, counter-coups, and fits of "democracy" happened every couple years), you might not have been allowed to attend at all. An entire generation of women from conservative backgrounds couldn't attend university in Turkiye until the 2000s because of the hijab ban. Unsurprisingly, once conservative Turkish politicians like Erd…

> An entire generation of women from conservative backgrounds couldn't attend university in Turkiye until the 2000s because of the hijab ban. This should have been countered by "forcing" education for everyone. For university, you could do special high subsidies that enable the woman to break from their families. It'll be painful for a couple generations but it does work.

Like Catholic schools in the US solved the “backwards” culture of the indigenous? — just force people to attend schools of your preferred ideology?

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#282

Post by ulfw »

csomar wrote: post #167
eru wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course, those same conservative politicians then do the exact same shenanigans of corruption, power politics, and authoritarianism, and so the cycle continues. The curious things was that early in Erdogan's reign, that is during the 2000s, Turkey seemed to be genuinely making progress, especially in terms of economic policy and outcomes. That's when he was still making fairly orthodox reforms more or less along…

To be fair, he is still doing the infrastructure build up. I think the only difference is that he has moved from the liberal agenda; but he only followed that agenda to have a shot at the EU membership. Once that became not a viable option, he obviously regressed on that. I don't think keeping the same policies as the 2000s would have avoided the hyper-inflation spirals though it might have marginally helped. Turkey…

Same can be said for many countries, even highly developed ones such as the US or UK

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#283

Post by zmgsabst »

whatshisface wrote: post #268
yupyupyups wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This should have been countered by "forcing" education for everyone. For university, you could do special high subsidies that enable the woman to break from their families. It'll be painful for a couple generations but it does work. Yikes

I wonder why these comments are always written from the imagined perspective of a space invader that has reformed countless planets already...

Colonialism never died, just rebranded.

Progressivism started as a movement to empower technocrats to “better” society via social engineering — and as a continuation of US/EU colonialism. They invented the concept of “scientific racism”, forcibly sterilized undesirables, etc.

Now their followers destroy native culture, eg Japanese culture, promote a return to systemic racism, etc.

And make posts like this, where they argue that forcibly indoctrinating the youth with their ideology will enlighten society.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#284

Post by kelnos »

dragonwriter wrote: post #251
stickfigure wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A constitutional amendment requires ratification by 3/4 of the states. Even getting one proposed requires 2/3 of both houses of congress. This is not going to happen. Simply ignoring the constitution and cancelling the vote? There's no way he will be able to shift the Overton window that far in ~3 years.

> Simply ignoring the constitution and cancelling the vote? How about ignoring the Constitution and just running anyway? > There's no way he will be able to shift the Overton window that far in ~3 years. Yeah, even totalitarians these days hold elections for show. I absolutely expect that there will formally be an election in 2028.

> How about ignoring the Constitution and just running anyway?

What does that even mean? He can certainly mount a campaign, and the RNC delegates could even all pick him at the convention, but elections are run by the states, and they are under no obligation to violate the constitution by allowing his name on the ballot or counting write-in votes for him.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the shittiest red states in the US would put him on anyway, but I sincerely hope it wouldn't be enough for him to win.

Even if somehow he did win a 2028 election, Congress has to certify the results, and, depending on the partisan makeup at the time of certification, that could be a non-starter.

And even if that doesn't stop him, even with the current composition of SCOTUS, I find it hard to believe they'd allow him to remain in office for a third term. Of course, courts can be ignored; then it's up to the military, and then we've truly lost.

There are so many ways pushing Trump as the 2028 candidate could blow up in their faces, I don't think even the GOP is stupid enough to allow that to happen, regardless of what Trump's base wants.

> I absolutely expect that there will formally be an election in 2028.

There isn't "an" election. There are 51 elections, run by each state and by DC. I think this is one of the few strengths of our electoral system when it comes to federal elections: making elections into a totalitarian sham means subversion on a difficult level. Blue states will never bow to that, red states don't have to (as they'll already vote red), and there's so much scrutiny on the swing states that it would be incredibly difficult to pull off.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#285

Post by ashoeafoot »

enceladus06 wrote: post #180
alephnerd wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the 2000s, depending on how overtly conservative you were and who was in govenenent (coups, counter-coups, and fits of "democracy" happened every couple years), you might not have been allowed to attend at all. An entire generation of women from conservative backgrounds couldn't attend university in Turkiye until the 2000s because of the hijab ban. Unsurprisingly, once conservative Turkish politicians like Erd…

Or they could get out of the middle ages and stop caring if women cover their hair?

They can't the inability to form strong institutions is baked in. And if you have no law, beyond the state/family-head rules this or that, you cant reform and renorm.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#286

Post by ashoeafoot »

eru wrote: post #275
alephnerd wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the last few years we saw more 'interesting' economic ideas from Erdogan, like that high interest rates cause inflation Basically a bailout for AKP aligned construction oligarchs like MAPA Group. Turkiye did the same thing in the 2000s that China did in the 2010s with real estate construction. > Turkey seemed to be genuinely making progress, especially in terms of economic policy and outcomes. That's when he was…

Yes, IMF rules and EU neoliberal orthodoxy actually work. Have a look at the development of Greek unemployment numbers over the last decade or so. It has been a steady downward march, with Covid merely a minor blip. (Having said that, unemployment is still at something like 10%. That's bad, but far from 'basket case' territory.)

because thr youth left in droves? Empty house == good statistics

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#287

Post by herewulf »

JambalayaJimbo wrote: post #237
echelon wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IMO Arnold Schwarzenegger, to pick a random foreign born politician, should be able to stand for President. The reservoir of potential candidates is vast. The risk this mitigates seems important enough to give up on additional potential candidates. It's not like other countries aren't protective. Have you looked at trying to even just immigrate to Japan? Regardless of how you feel, a country should be able to set i…

Well the American born presidential policy is just strange because it seems so un-American. You’d think the country would have had at least one range to riches president who was a refugee from some war torn country by now, it’s just such a fundamental part of the nation’s mythos.

No, the mythos is more like a couple hundred years of WASP gentry dominance and then occasionally they let a Catholic get elected.

Quite a big deal when JFK was the first. Look it up.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#288

Post by kelnos »

conception wrote: post #232
psychlops wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump can't run for election again as it's his second term. Voting doesn't apply.

I assume they’ll say he was robbed in 2020 and it’s two consecutive terms he gets. And congress won’t stop him. At least 40% of the electorate will support him. Most states will put him on the ballot, threatening to remove the democratic candidate if the others don’t. He will be in charge of the FEC and the various enforcement mechanisms, as he is now. So then what?

> I assume they’ll say he was robbed in 2020 and it’s two consecutive terms he gets.

That's not how it works. 22A says:

"No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once."

Terms do not need to be consecutive to count toward the two-election limit.

There is, I believe a loophole: he can be elected vice president in 2028, and the president (whoever it may be) can resign, elevating Trump to the presidency again. Not sure if the courts would allow that, but who knows if the courts will be particularly relevant by 2028. Even if they wouldn't, they could elect a puppet president that just signs off on anything Trump wants to do.

Ultimately, though, I think all of this is kinda irrelevant. Trump is a huge problem, certainly, but the playbook for his administration this time was written by other people. JD Vance, for example, could be the one executing that playbook, and do more or less just as much damage to the country. The GOP doesn't need Trump in the future to continue to dismantle our democracy and funnel wealth more and more into the new American oligarchs. They just need to continue to dupe gullible, disaffected voters into supporting destructive politics.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#289

Post by eru »

kelnos wrote: post #276
eru wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Born in another country then naturalized still does not rule out sleeper agent situations. Seems pretty obvious to me. Voters can take these things into consideration when casting their ballots. No need to make these choices for them.

I think recent events in the US make it quite clear that voters don't really consider the things that actually matter when electing a president.

Sure, that's a defensible position, too.

In that case, I suggest finding some obscure German house of nobles and putting them on the throne. Works reasonably ok for the UK.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#290

Post by eru »

dylan604 wrote: post #230
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet when you look at the great espionnage stories, the perpetrators were citizens of the country. When you look at people who were "almost born" (came to the country as toddlers) or naturalized because of the love of their new country, purple claiming that they are second category citizens are hard to listen to.

Maybe because the policy exists that people have not so easily been able to get to the top position. Remove that policy and Putin himself could run for the office. It's an idiotic comment for an idiotic misunderstanding of why the policy exists

> Remove that policy and Putin himself could run for the office.

And I say, if the American people want Putin to be president (and Putin is willing to take the job), they deserve him.

At least, if you believe in democracy.

If you don't believe in Democracy, I suggest putting some obscure German house of nobles on the throne.

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