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Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

reuters.com

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Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#161

Post by gunian »

dylan604 wrote: post #159
eru wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US requires a fairly high minimum age and for someone to be born American. Those requirements seem also a bit silly and stand in the way of voters expressing their wishes. For some fun times, have a look at the requirements to become president in Singapore. Basically, you either have to have been a senior civil servant before or the CEO of a large and profitable company. https://www.eld.gov.sg/candidate_president…

Having someone born in the country they are looking to lead seems silly to you? With that restriction, it has taken quite some time for a foreign adversary to have a puppet elected vs just shipping in some carpet bagger. Having a minimum age also allows for some decent life experience. After all, 35 years old is not that old.

Singapore seems to be doing fine without that requirement is what that comment said i think talking about different things

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#162

Post by gunian »

fracus wrote: post #22
aiono wrote: post #9

I am from Turkey and this really concerns me. If we don't protest this in the streets and fight back I am afraid we don't have any kind of law anymore.

Isn't this just the latest cut in your democracy's death by a thousand cuts?

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Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#163

Post by [deleted] »

darkhorn wrote: post #65
echoangle wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well at least in my opinion, it seems extremely undemocratic. University education is a privilege that some people won’t be able to experience (financial constraints, having to care for relatives, …), and I don’t think it’s a unique qualifier for being a good president. I think if people want to elect someone who didn’t go to university, they should be able to.

Democracy doesn't work when ordinary people are not educated. Education in Turkey has been very poor. Many people have finished only 5th or 8th grades. Many didn't go to a high school. Thus people are not critical thinkers. They are voting as if they are supporting a football team. Someone popular with a low education can fool people, just like in Turkey or Venezuella. And now here we see the result. Erdoğan has no d…

[deleted]

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#164

Post by alephnerd »

eru wrote: post #151
alephnerd wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the 2000s, depending on how overtly conservative you were and who was in govenenent (coups, counter-coups, and fits of "democracy" happened every couple years), you might not have been allowed to attend at all. An entire generation of women from conservative backgrounds couldn't attend university in Turkiye until the 2000s because of the hijab ban. Unsurprisingly, once conservative Turkish politicians like Erd…

> Of course, those same conservative politicians then do the exact same shenanigans of corruption, power politics, and authoritarianism, and so the cycle continues. The curious things was that early in Erdogan's reign, that is during the 2000s, Turkey seemed to be genuinely making progress, especially in terms of economic policy and outcomes. That's when he was still making fairly orthodox reforms more or less along…

> In the last few years we saw more 'interesting' economic ideas from Erdogan, like that high interest rates cause inflation

Basically a bailout for AKP aligned construction oligarchs like MAPA Group. Turkiye did the same thing in the 2000s that China did in the 2010s with real estate construction.

> Turkey seemed to be genuinely making progress, especially in terms of economic policy and outcomes. That's when he was still making fairly orthodox reforms more or less along the lines required by the EU for aspiring new members. (Yes, neoliberal reforms work!)

Yep, but moreso IMF, because Erdogan 1.0 still had to follow IMF terms and reforms from the 2001 bailout.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#165

Post by FpUser »

bawolff wrote: post #77
overfeed wrote: post #31

In other, recent, non-related news, Columbia University revoked the diplomas of some pro-Palestine protestors[1]. The CBS headline buries the lede, but revoking diplomas is not too low for American universities. 1. https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/columbia-university-pro...

From the article it sounds like they were revoked due to causing property damage to the university. Even if you disagree with that move, it seems like a rather different situation.

>" Even if you disagree with that move, it seems like a rather different situation."

Nope. It is the same. Twisting arms to remove opposing political views. If they've committed crimes then there are laws to deal with it.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#166

Post by alephnerd »

rayiner wrote: post #160
alephnerd wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the 2000s, depending on how overtly conservative you were and who was in govenenent (coups, counter-coups, and fits of "democracy" happened every couple years), you might not have been allowed to attend at all. An entire generation of women from conservative backgrounds couldn't attend university in Turkiye until the 2000s because of the hijab ban. Unsurprisingly, once conservative Turkish politicians like Erd…

Sounds like Trump getting revenge on the PMCs in America now.

Not exactly. An Erdogan-esque example would probably be a JD Vance or DeSantis administration, because both are actually ideological. Trump might be a lot of things, but ideological is not one of them.

Founder Fund aligned vendors like Palantir, Andruil, SpaceX, and Scale (they're making the pivot into defense tech because their losing their moat) are absolutely taking advantage of FF's closeness to the Trump admin to get preferential contracts.

That said, the best comparison is probably Israel under Netanyahu after he was indicted for loving ice cream too much. While there was a boom in startups and business creation, most of those startups ended up leaving after the Judicial Crisis upended stability.

Wiz's leadership themselves moved Wiz's accounts and ownership outside of Israel during that crisis and Yinon (and most other members of the Israel cybersecurity scene) were very vocally opposed to Netanyahu and Likud during the crisis. At the same time, Likud aligned businesses did very well so long as they remained aligned (eg. NSO Security collapsed when they decided to align against Netanyahu, after which he retaliated with a Likud lead inquiry into NSO Group in the Knesset).

Ehn, at this point it doesn't even matter. The damage has been done, and either way I'm still extremely well off and have backup options to move to. May as well be completely jaded, cynical, and mercenary - when elephants fight it's the grass that dies and the mosquitos that feast.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#167

Post by csomar »

eru wrote: post #151
alephnerd wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the 2000s, depending on how overtly conservative you were and who was in govenenent (coups, counter-coups, and fits of "democracy" happened every couple years), you might not have been allowed to attend at all. An entire generation of women from conservative backgrounds couldn't attend university in Turkiye until the 2000s because of the hijab ban. Unsurprisingly, once conservative Turkish politicians like Erd…

> Of course, those same conservative politicians then do the exact same shenanigans of corruption, power politics, and authoritarianism, and so the cycle continues. The curious things was that early in Erdogan's reign, that is during the 2000s, Turkey seemed to be genuinely making progress, especially in terms of economic policy and outcomes. That's when he was still making fairly orthodox reforms more or less along…

To be fair, he is still doing the infrastructure build up. I think the only difference is that he has moved from the liberal agenda; but he only followed that agenda to have a shot at the EU membership. Once that became not a viable option, he obviously regressed on that.

I don't think keeping the same policies as the 2000s would have avoided the hyper-inflation spirals though it might have marginally helped. Turkey issue is that it can't move from being a poor economy (as in simple rent industries like tourism and packaging stuff) to a middle economy where they can manufacture some stuff. Istanbul is a very misleading city because it paints a different picture to the reality of the average turk once you are outside of the city bubble.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#168

Post by csomar »

alephnerd wrote: post #72
msm_ wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a brief reading of the wikipedia article you linked, I'm under impression that the accusations are baseless (given that there are - supposedly - witnesses and his former classmates that confirm his version, and apparently no whistleblowers that present a proof otherwise). The sources are in Turkish so I didn't consult them[1]. Is the article biased or omits some important context? Since you believe the degree is…

Before the 2000s, depending on how overtly conservative you were and who was in govenenent (coups, counter-coups, and fits of "democracy" happened every couple years), you might not have been allowed to attend at all. An entire generation of women from conservative backgrounds couldn't attend university in Turkiye until the 2000s because of the hijab ban. Unsurprisingly, once conservative Turkish politicians like Erd…

> An entire generation of women from conservative backgrounds couldn't attend university in Turkiye until the 2000s because of the hijab ban.

This should have been countered by "forcing" education for everyone. For university, you could do special high subsidies that enable the woman to break from their families. It'll be painful for a couple generations but it does work.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#169

Post by overfeed »

Aurornis wrote: post #158
overfeed wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 questions: 1. Why now (for Columbia)? 2. Why now (for Turkey)? The fact that it's in the realm of possibility that the answer is the same for both (political expedience) is a stain on America/Columbia U.

The Columbia incident was only a few months ago and they’ve been going through the process of building a case, pursuing legal options, and reviewing evidence. The article says there were over 40 people involved and they’ve been building cases against each of them. I don’t think there’s a conspiracy here. These things are a lot of work, involve a lot of lawyers, and take a lot of time. It’s only been a few months.

You don't think the fact that the current White House has withdrawn funding as leverage, and is pressuring universities to suppress pro-Palestinian sentiment is relevant?

Not so long ago it wasn't enough for justice to be done, but it has to be seen to be done.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#170

Post by vvchvb »

throwaway3485t8 wrote: post #35

To add insult to injury, it could be the case that Erdogan's degree is fake [1] (I don't know of a single Turkish person NOT voting for him that thinks that his degree is authentic) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recep_Tayyip_Erdo%C4%9Fan_univ...

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