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We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

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Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#281

Post by jameshart »

peteradio wrote: post #280
jameshart wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay. And what specific number of quality adjusted life years would a vaccination program need to promise to save across the globe before you personally are willing to take it?

> quality adjusted life years Do you feel comfortable acknowledging that this metric in isolation could result in trading years across age demographics? To what degree does it matter if we take 1 year of life from a child and give it to a middle aged person, doing exactly that would be fairly neutral according to QALY.

Not sure what kind of vaccines you’ve been taking, but realistically that trade off is not currently on the table, is it?

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#282

Post by josephcsible »

wizofaus wrote: post #247
josephcsible wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which part of the new definition do you disagree with as being a valid definition for a modern vaccine? Isn't the fundamental point of a vaccine to protect you from a disease? Because that's exactly the part of the definition they removed.

Where are you seeing that? And clearly the fundamental point of current COVID vaccines is to protect you from disease (they may not help much preventing you from catching it, but they certainly protect you once you have caught it).

Here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20191111050113/https://www.cdc.g...

https://web.archive.org/web/20220205010915/https://www.cdc.g...

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#283

Post by rayiner »

randomhodler84 wrote: post #140
rayiner wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had it, before a vaccine was available, and it was a nothing burger, like it was for most 30-somethings. If you already have natural immunity, or 1-2 doses of the vaccine, there’s no point worry about it.

No, stop staying this foolishness. In dense cities like NY, I would say at least 20% of the city is infected right now. Workers. People on the street. The subway is disgusting, there is at least one infected person per carriage coughing over everyone and refusing to wear a mask. You walk around and hear that infected lung with light mucus cough. It’s everywhere. Unless we get proper proper sterilizing vaccines, the w…

Well maybe try moving out of such a densely packed disease trap? Out here in the exurbs I don’t know a single person for whom covid has been any more inconvenient than a cold (since vaccines became widely available).

I’m no anti-vaxxer. I had it, got vaxxed anyway just in case, wore my masks, etc. Like most people, I’m done now. If you want to go live in a bubble be my guest.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#284

Post by jameshart »

peteradio wrote: post #264
jameshart wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, Hippocrates' famous oath that to this day inspires all medical practitioners: "It's too bad, but I guess he would've died soon anyway."

Well if the death of a 90 year old is considered as bad as the death of a healthy child then dare I say I disagree with your value judgement?

Is there some covid treatment regime I am unaware of that requires us to sacrifice the lives of children to save the elderly?

I’m pretty sure we’re talking about public health measures that - if successful- will reduce covid risks for everyone.

And if we have to save the lives of a bunch of 90 year olds in order to also save the lives of some kids, we’ll that is a risk I am willing to take.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#285

Post by jameshart »

mherdeg wrote: post #137
autokad wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope not, because I don't think we will be given a choice on whether we want to take it or not, and the last booster I had in December wrecked me. Within 20 minutes I was yawning non stop, one yawn after till the point I was gasping for air. eventually my whole body was in pain for about 3 days, my resting heart rate was over 100 (60-65 is normal for me) and my oxygen levels was down to 90. 6 weeks later I caught o…

Yeah that tracks -- a local news station read through a database (I'm assuming this is VAERS) and found 5 reports of excessive yawning from Moderna recipients as of Apr 2021: https://www.wral.com/coronavirus/staring-yawning-falling-off... Sorry to hear about the experience :( If you have reason to believe your body can't tolerate the mRNA vaccines, some alternatives to discuss with a GP might include * Evushield -- p…

Wow. Five cases of excessive yawning correlated with vaccine administration. Out of millions of doses administered.

We should totally pause on the rollout of the vaccine, while we do a proper risk assessment on that.

Because on the one hand, we have the risk that unchecked spread of the disease will lead to more dangerous mutations and we could be faced with a complete collapse of healthcare capacity as it is overwhelmed by severe cases.

And on the other, a handful of people might yawn a lot.

In fact that risk balance is too tricky to be left up to the experts. Individuals should do their own personal risk assessment, based on how annoying they find it to yawn, versus how much hospital capacity they assume is available in their region.

No wonder we’re still in this damn pandemic.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#286

Post by peteradio »

jameshart wrote: post #284
peteradio wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well if the death of a 90 year old is considered as bad as the death of a healthy child then dare I say I disagree with your value judgement?

Is there some covid treatment regime I am unaware of that requires us to sacrifice the lives of children to save the elderly? I’m pretty sure we’re talking about public health measures that - if successful- will reduce covid risks for everyone . And if we have to save the lives of a bunch of 90 year olds in order to also save the lives of some kids, we’ll that is a risk I am willing to take.

Pray tell what evidence we have that this is a live saving pharmaceutical when applied to young healthy children.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#287

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

MrMan wrote: post #165
robhunter wrote: post #21

I'm not sure the public - at least in North America - has much of an appetite for any more Covid vaccines. In the US: - Only about 2% of kids under 5 have had a 1st dose since they were introduced nearly a month ago - Only 30% of the 5-11 year old population has had 2 doses - So much damage has been done to public trust - "You will not get Covid if you get the vaccine; the vaccine eliminates the spread of the disease…

this is complete bullshit - getting vaccinated isnt a matter of public trust, stop with this ridiculous propaganda to politicize medicine.

The parent was speaking about the public's trust in institutions. I share the belief that the medical establishment's refusal to speak with nuance about covid and the vaccines did more harm than good.

By laying everything out plainly, I believe more people would have gotten vaccinated.

They're used to trying to distill unbelievably complex issues down to an actionable, one-sentence recommendation for everyone. For most things that's fine, but during a global pandemic people want to know a bit more.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#288

Post by DennisP »

t-3 wrote: post #258
randomhodler84 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just wanna go out in public and not get sick. It’s happened too many times now.

If the vaccine isn't stopping you from getting sick now, why would it stop you from getting sick if more people took it? Does not compute.

If more people took the same vaccine, sure. But GP said we need new tech. The universal vaccine in the article, for example.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#289

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

peteradio wrote: post #280
jameshart wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay. And what specific number of quality adjusted life years would a vaccination program need to promise to save across the globe before you personally are willing to take it?

> quality adjusted life years Do you feel comfortable acknowledging that this metric in isolation could result in trading years across age demographics? To what degree does it matter if we take 1 year of life from a child and give it to a middle aged person, doing exactly that would be fairly neutral according to QALY.

Well from my understanding they'd only be equal if the middle aged person were in perfect health.

The real issue with QUALYs is that it discounts the lives of disabled folks because they might never be 100% "healthy".

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#290

Post by edmcnulty101 »

MrMan wrote: post #246
edmcnulty101 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We've had roughly (last time I checked several months ago) a couple of dozen verified deaths relating to the vaccine "Verified" > That's not really reported because anyone who expects every single human on the planet to have zero negative reaction to a drug Exactly, so why take the risk if you're not in a vulnerable group to Covid.

for public health

Natural immunity has the exact same effect as the vaccine. So you gain or lose nothing. (except the risk of the vaccine)
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