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We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

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Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#251

Post by wizofaus »

Ekaros wrote: post #228
wbobeirne wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on your employer and whether you consider losing your job 'forcing' you

You have always option to starve to death. Isn't that freedom?

If you're unlucky enough to end up among the whole 3% of us that really can't find a job, you aren't going to starve. At any rate it's hardly reasonable to expect you should be able to refuse to comply with your terms of employment and not suffer any negative consequences.

(NB: posting this purely for the benefit of anyone else reading Ekaros's posts and thinking they have any sort point at all).

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#252

Post by wizofaus »

internet_user wrote: post #216
jmyeet wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So here's what the pandemic should've made patently clear: people weigh up human lives against inconveniencce all the time. What is wearing a mask? it's an inconvenience. It clearly reduces transmission rates and would thus save lives but many don't want to be inconvenienced. Even taking the vaccine is merely on the level of inconvenience. After billions of dollars, the scaremongering horror stories about "side effec…

>After billions of dollars, the scaremongering horror stories about "side effects" and "long term effects" have of course never eventuated. Never eventuated, like you mean Astrazeneca was never suspended in eighteen countries on three continents? and Nordics never suspended Moderna? That never happened in your reality? Wild.

Yes, suspended, but then resumed once it was determined the risks were very low and suitable techniques were established to handle the adverse reactions.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#253

Post by wizofaus »

bombcar wrote: post #48
nescioquid wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not magically, but if you have one delivery vehicle making a route by n addresses, could that not be more efficient than n independent round trips?

It can be more efficient but the question remains if it's more likely to kill than otherwise (not all travel miles are equal). In one state 34% of traffic fatalities involved alcohol. So Uber may do more for that than grocery delivery. Grocery delivery drivers may also be better drivers because drive more often. Or, they may be overworked and rushing to complete deliveries.

Stats on % of car accidents (esp. fatalities) involving delivery vehicles would be good to see actually, they must be available somewhere?

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#254

Post by wizofaus »

schmichael wrote: post #13
opan wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increased popularity of WFH probably helps a bit. You can order groceries to your house pretty easily as well.

Traffic deaths went up during the pandemic, so unfortunately WFH is not effective at impacting traffic deaths. https://www.gao.gov/blog/during-covid-19-road-fatalities-inc...

Definitely not what happened in Australia! But lockdowns and travel restrictions here were much stricter.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#255

Post by wizofaus »

internet_user wrote: post #204
jameshart wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of living, nonhospitalized people, who are catching a preventable disease because community vaccine uptake wasn't as high as it needed to be to really stamp out the disease... ... have somehow reached the conclusion that the vaccine which did them no harm whatsoever, and is responsible for their being likely to have a very mild case of the disease, was not safe or effective? Why on earth have they reached that c…

>which did them no harm whatsoever Astrazeneca was suspended in eighteen countries across three continents. Nordic countries pulled Moderna. "no harm"? really?

No significant number of people have died or suffered permanent harm from taking any covid vaccine that I'm aware of. Yes certain countries have at various times suspended distribution - the best explanation was concern that if any of these vaccines did end up killing people, it would destroy public trust to the point vaccination uptake would be massively reduced. But those very same vaccines are still being administered to 100s of millions of people. I think we'd know by now if they really were harmful.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#256

Post by internet_user »

wizofaus wrote: post #255
internet_user wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>which did them no harm whatsoever Astrazeneca was suspended in eighteen countries across three continents. Nordic countries pulled Moderna. "no harm"? really?

No significant number of people have died or suffered permanent harm from taking any covid vaccine that I'm aware of. Yes certain countries have at various times suspended distribution - the best explanation was concern that if any of these vaccines did end up killing people, it would destroy public trust to the point vaccination uptake would be massively reduced. But those very same vaccines are still being administ…

False. We do know that they can cause harm.

That's why they are either limited or outright banned for certain populations.

Moderna remains banned in the Nordics for boys/men under 30. NHS does NOT give AZ boosters, only mRNA. NHS will not give AZ for those under 40, only mRNA.

Follow the science below:

[1] https://thl.fi/en/web/infectious-diseases-and-vaccinations/w...

[2] https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavir...

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#257

Post by internet_user »

wizofaus wrote: post #252
internet_user wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>After billions of dollars, the scaremongering horror stories about "side effects" and "long term effects" have of course never eventuated. Never eventuated, like you mean Astrazeneca was never suspended in eighteen countries on three continents? and Nordics never suspended Moderna? That never happened in your reality? Wild.

Yes, suspended, but then resumed once it was determined the risks were very low and suitable techniques were established to handle the adverse reactions.

False.

Moderna remains banned in the Nordics for boys/men under 30. NHS does NOT give AZ boosters, only mRNA. NHS will not give AZ for those under 40, only mRNA.

[1] https://thl.fi/en/web/infectious-diseases-and-vaccinations/w...

[2] https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavir...

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#258

Post by t-3 »

randomhodler84 wrote: post #221
akkawwakka wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immunity to infection ≠ immunity to serious disease. The epitopes that drive long-lived memory are fairly well conserved.

I just wanna go out in public and not get sick. It’s happened too many times now.

If the vaccine isn't stopping you from getting sick now, why would it stop you from getting sick if more people took it? Does not compute.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#259

Post by internet_user »

MrMan wrote: post #245
openfuture wrote: post #16

Lol nobody touching this discussion with a however-long-you-can-think-of pole. At least not anymore. My contribution: I think we have been destroying trust systematically for so long that people are losing their sanity. Finally it is time to rethink our foundations and stop coercing. Currently there are various things that take trust for granted and they will need to become a great deal more persuasive if they want t…

social media is the root of the problem. that is what destroys trust, not "science." we will only figure this out collectively after more genocides

No, what destroyed trust is utterly shameless lying by people who knew what they are saying is utter nonsense.

and yet they kept at it for two years.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#260

Post by t-3 »

metadat wrote: post #189
sobriquet9 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think any vaccine study had odds of transmission as one of the end points. How do you even design such a study?

It's not complicated- by reducing the odds of contracting covid, the odds of transmission are reduced.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that covid spreads predominantly from the nasal cavity, where vaccines would have little effect.
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