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We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

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Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#261

Post by t-3 »

metadat wrote: post #47
robhunter wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you consider to be "taking an insane risk WRT Covid" ?

The majority of prevailing attitudes and behaviors in Utah and Texas are good examples of what I consider to be a total disregard for public health. Again, this is just me, some individual on HN who doesn't matter at all in the grand scheme of things.

As an unvaccinated suburbanite, my experience has been different. While I stayed home, my very progressive and multiply-vaxxed sister was traveling, visiting our parents during lockdown, going out to restaurants and sporting events. Who exactly was an irresponsible danger to the public health here?

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#262

Post by peteradio »

sovnade wrote: post #117
apvieira wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the CDC saying that "vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don't get sick"? https://youtu.be/uKf8dVxOy0s

And this was mostly true from the original strain back in early 2021. The vaccine reduced the ability to contract and spread the virus dramatically. The chances of contracting and spreading the original strain, if you were fully vaccinated, was close enough to zero to say it basically wasn't happening. Delta obviously changed that, and omicron has changed it much more.

You would think the Centers for Disease Control might predict this coronavirus like all other coronaviruses would rapidly mutate. This is the worst kind of data driven exercise where field knowledgeable people apparently pretend that the history of their field does not exist. Experts are clearly being siloed and gagged. I'd even bet Fauci is being told what to say, against his own judgement, but his position gags him. Any true scientist would be twisted into knots protecting their statements with caveats, but what does the public hear? Confidence!

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#263

Post by peteradio »

peter422 wrote: post #135
jtc331 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cost under $20 Per-dose cost is meaningless. Now do “multi billion dollar government paid for contracts”.

Yes they have huge contracts but they also have to produce the vaccine! And the vaccine could be waaay more expensive given its value to the people who took it. Merck stock (no vaccine) had the exact same return as Pfizer over the past 5 years. Now Moderna is up 800%, so maybe look their way if you are concerned about a conspiracy.

Look at the balance sheet not the stock market reaction.

The vaccines are arguably being marketed to people for whom its more expensive than its worth: the young and healthy.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#264

Post by peteradio »

jameshart wrote: post #152
osigurdson wrote: post #102

>> the current 7-day average is 380 deaths per day Stop counting simple deaths. Instead count years of life lost vs average life expectancy.

Ah yes, Hippocrates' famous oath that to this day inspires all medical practitioners: "It's too bad, but I guess he would've died soon anyway."

Well if the death of a 90 year old is considered as bad as the death of a healthy child then dare I say I disagree with your value judgement?

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#265

Post by jameshart »

josephcsible wrote: post #161
jameshart wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccines are not only supposed to benefit the recipient. Vaccination is a public health program . If vaccinating under fives reduces the risk to preschool carers and enables us to maintain higher preschool capacity then that's a public benefit that has nothing. to do with whether it affects the individual outcomes of five year olds who contract covid.

This gives me Omelas vibes. Is it really a good idea to increase risk of harm (via side effects) in our youngest for "the greater good"?

We’re talking about a vaccine. The risks involved are generally very small, and the benefits of a successful vaccination program are massive.

On the other hand we occasionally lose an entire classroom of kids to a mass shooting, but a significant part of society tells us that we can’t do anything to restrict gun ownership to reduce that risk because apparently the ‘greater good’ of mass unrestricted gun ownership is more important.

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#266

Post by peteradio »

LooseMarmoset wrote: post #146

Full disclosure: I have not gotten a COVID vaccine; I am quite unlikely to get a COVID vaccine. If you want to get a COVID vaccine, please feel free to do so, though I would urge informed consent. Good vaccines are difficult to make, but there's no doubt that a well-tested and approved vaccine saves lives. We don't have polio or smallpox today, thanks to vaccines. I made the decision not to get the COVID vaccine. I h…

Wow, that's quite a story. I've found myself in "owned" ethical situations but not at such a young age or in as much of an "owned" position, but boy does the memory burn anyway. I wonder would you be described as a "rugged individualist"? Have you considered stoicism to cure you lol?

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#267

Post by jameshart »

internet_user wrote: post #204
jameshart wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of living, nonhospitalized people, who are catching a preventable disease because community vaccine uptake wasn't as high as it needed to be to really stamp out the disease... ... have somehow reached the conclusion that the vaccine which did them no harm whatsoever, and is responsible for their being likely to have a very mild case of the disease, was not safe or effective? Why on earth have they reached that c…

>which did them no harm whatsoever Astrazeneca was suspended in eighteen countries across three continents. Nordic countries pulled Moderna. "no harm"? really?

Institutions changing advice and reacting with an abundance of caution to protect public health causes you to lower your trust in health regulatory agencies?

What would you need them to do to increase trust?

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#268

Post by to1y »

ephimetheus wrote: post #236
to1y wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the polio vaccine left people blind iirc. Unfortunately the anti-vax group isnt completely crazy this time. If you haven't seen or heard of adverse reactions click your heels and go kiss your mother: you're one of the lucky ones. I had to get the vac for int travel and to this day, 6 months later, I still have not recovered my strength. I had covid before that and since then, the first time I barely noticed it,…

I know literally not a single person who has had a severe reaction to any of the vaccines. I find it fascinating that on HN anecdata that conforms with the vaccine being dangerous is totally accepted, but anecdata about people getting very sick from COVID are either considered lies or statistical outliers.

React19.org - Here's 12000 of them in one spot for you.

My favorite is the 12 year old girl who's in a wheelchair now, what's yours?

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#269

Post by jameshart »

osigurdson wrote: post #183
jameshart wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, Hippocrates' famous oath that to this day inspires all medical practitioners: "It's too bad, but I guess he would've died soon anyway."

For individual patients, sure, but when dealing with populations a more rigorous statistical analysis is needed.

Okay. And what specific number of quality adjusted life years would a vaccination program need to promise to save across the globe before you personally are willing to take it?

Re: We could have universal Covid vaccines soon

#270

Post by Robotbeat »

ars wrote: post #113
Robotbeat wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they magically appear at your house with no addition driving involved? (Sorry, that came off snarkier than I intended. Online ordering of food just kind of outsources the driving, doesn’t reduce it. Different maybe for delivery trucks that serve multiple houses per trip.)

So what's your plan then for groceries to magically appear in someone's house without driving or delivery? And if you say walk or bike or bus you clearly have very different shopping than I do - let me see you carry 2 cases of 15 bottles of seltzer, and a cart full of groceries on any of those.

I don’t really have a plan, just pointing out how it just moves around who is driving. One option is to buy in bulk vast majority of stuff to make fewer trips and then have delivery trucks do fresh/perishable groceries, like the ol’ milkman. Which, of course, is already a thing but a bit different from the newer grocery delivery model.

Also, while I like the sidewalk robot pod things and flying delivery drones, I legitimately like the idea of delivering stuff with PVC pipes and little electric pods. A little on the small side for groceries, but seems pretty doable without adding congestion or noise (to surface streets or the air). https://i.pipedreamlabs.co/

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