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Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

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Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#281

Post by zzzeek »

kingofhdds wrote: post #271
OliverJones wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the largest part of the Facebook users has not even > realized the scandal in full scale. Exactly. That's why they must be regulated. Pharma companies, food companies, and airlines, to mention three, have the same sorts of characteristics in their businesses. Examples: Airlines have regulations because the typical user has no way to evaluate maintenance regimes or navigation procedures. The big information-hooverin…

No, in fact, airlines have regulations, because big flying objects loaded with fuel are kinda seriously dangerous, and can kill (not in un*x console meaning of the word) lots of people at once. Very unlike social platforms, to be fair. If regulations were introduced because of users not knowing what's good and beautiful, believe me, IT industry would be the most regulated thing in the world.

airplanes are kind of unlike banks and trading markets too yet those are also heavily regulated.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#282

Post by seba_dos1 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #226
a012 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do, abandoned Instagram, Whatsapp, and FB for a year and I don't miss a thing. Keep in touch with real friends instead of checking the virtual ones.

If you have international family/friends, WhatsApp is the most ubiquitous and easy to use option I’ve come across.

Honest question: Is it really? That can be just my network, but I've never stumbled upon anyone using WhatsApp here in Poland. I only know this name because I follow tech news. Almost everyone uses Facebook's Messenger, some people use Telegram, sometimes Hangouts, gamers use Discord, techies Signal or Jabber and that's pretty much it.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#283

Post by superkuh »

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #280
superkuh wrote: post #279

It's weird that people can get so upset about these limited excesses of surveillance by companies they've given explicit conset to when more and more of the governments of the world are literally recording everything forever and sharing it with a rapidly expanding set of organizations made up of the same kind of people.

I’ve this comment written a lot here. And while I get it and even agree partially, there is a problem of scope and precedent. It’s easy for us to say “stupid user, wtf did you think fb was doing?” But, the truth is we don’t actually know. As tech people we are even just guessing at the real scope of FB’s collection and how they use that data. It’s not like this is something a typical user could really know because th…

And I didn't have to know because I never signed up for Facebook because it's obvious that centralization leads to perverse incentives. It's been obvious from the start but dismissed without consideration ala https://xkcd.com/743/

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#284

Post by Slansitartop »

akuji1993 wrote: post #129
ponderatul wrote: post #66

I think we are talking differently about this permission concept. Legally yes, they had permission. But the fact that they used those dark ux patterns to request that permission should not be forgotten. Even though legally they are in the right, we as users should make this fact irrelevant and just abandon the platform. Let them be right, let them win the argument but lose the battle with the general public.

I'm still completely convinced that this whole scandal will not damage Facebook a bit, in the long term. Yeah, the stock is going to be a bit lower for some weeks, some people will leave, but the largest part of the Facebook users has not even realised the scandal in full scale. They're not going anywhere, they're going to continue as is, since there really is not alternative for Facebook right now and tbh they would…

> I'm still completely convinced that this whole scandal will not damage Facebook a bit, in the long term. Yeah, the stock is going to be a bit lower for some weeks, some people will leave, but the largest part of the Facebook users has not even realised the scandal in full scale

They'll probably be damaged if FB becomes a downmarket social network only used by those who are unsophisticated and unaware. It may not be apparent now, but it will be when some new product captures those users and starts building social momentum that FB can't counter. That's literally how FB got big, and I think they've only been able to so far prevent it happening to them because they've been allowed to buy their competition.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#285

Post by dangerlibrary »

zzzeek wrote: post #281
kingofhdds wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, in fact, airlines have regulations, because big flying objects loaded with fuel are kinda seriously dangerous, and can kill (not in un*x console meaning of the word) lots of people at once. Very unlike social platforms, to be fair. If regulations were introduced because of users not knowing what's good and beautiful, believe me, IT industry would be the most regulated thing in the world.

airplanes are kind of unlike banks and trading markets too yet those are also heavily regulated.

Sort of. For now.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#286

Post by Slansitartop »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #225
r3bl wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google+ had all the necessary requirements to be successful, but it failed at creating the network effect. Facebook does have the network effect, so killing its network effect will be much more difficult.

Google could not be more confusing. I spend 10 hours a day on the computer, and I will avoid Google stuff because it’s just not worth the time it takes to educate yourself about their nonsense, so I wouldn’t expect anyone less tech savvy to want to bother with them either.

The main problem with Google is that I expect any service they build (beyond their biggest ones) to be shutdown eventually (probably sooner rather than later). It's not worth taking a chance on them anymore.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#287

Post by oselhn »

rsync wrote: post #224
mercer wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My knowledge in this area is limited, so maybe others can pipe in, but assuming massive amounts of data on millions (or most?) Facebook users is out in the wild, which cannot be 'put back': 1. how well can this be actually used currently to create a proper psychosocial(?) profile of an individual? What's the current state of the art? Any suggestions for books or papers to read on the matter? 2. do we have any idea of…

"how well can this be actually used currently to create a proper psychosocial(?) profile of an individual? What's the current state of the art? Any suggestions for books or papers to read on the matter?" I suspect quite poorly. It's 2018 and I've been hearing pitches and narratives to do with fancy targeting of advertisements and user profiling now for 22 years. And what do we have ? If I search for something obscure…

I had one incident which convinced me that their algorithm is easily fooled even by single misclick.

I hate ads propagating alcohol so I always report them to FB. Once I misclicked and instead of reporting it I opened linked article. Based on that click FB added alcohol to my interests. It did not matter that I reported all other similar adds before and also after that.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#288

Post by smnrchrds »

awalton wrote: post #137
ponderatul wrote: post #66

I think we are talking differently about this permission concept. Legally yes, they had permission. But the fact that they used those dark ux patterns to request that permission should not be forgotten. Even though legally they are in the right, we as users should make this fact irrelevant and just abandon the platform. Let them be right, let them win the argument but lose the battle with the general public.

> Legally yes, they had permission. California is a two-party consent state for recording, and it's not an unreasonable stretch to say this should also include call metadata. If one party (i.e. Me) opted out, and someone else didn't, they now have a log that I didn't give them permission to make. I think this is probably the most strong case users will have against Facebook, and I honestly think it's a pretty damned…

> California is a two-party consent state for recording, and it's not an unreasonable stretch to say this should also include call metadata

It is very unreasonable. All modern phones automatically keep a log of your phone calls (call history). Should I ask for the consent of anyone I call or delete the phone call from phone history immediately after, otherwise I face criminal penalties?

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#290

Post by fortythirteen »

What is the legality of Facebook recording the SMS conversations of someone who never signed up for FB, but whose text messages got caught in the feed of someone who did?

Secondly, were they just siphoning text or did they get a whole bunch of nudie photos too?

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