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Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

nature.com

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Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#271

Post by bkuhns »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #247
prox wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a r/askscience , there was a report that they are also working on a surface identifying vaccine, which doesn’t mutate (as much?), instead based on the spike protein. They didn’t earlier because it takes a longer time to develop and is harder.

vaccines don't "mutate" ?? Are you saying they're developing more broadband vaccine that can handle more mutation by the virus?

Not OP, but I think what was meant is identifying a vaccine that targets proteins(s) on the surface of the virus rather than only the little "spikes" that protrude from it. Early vaccine development latched onto the idea that the spike proteins are critical to the virus' ability to infect humans, so mutations would likely/hopefully/maybe make the virus less dangerous to humans anyway.

But, it would be ideal if we could also find proteins on the surface of virus that are less likely to mutate (than other proteins in the virus) that we could teach our immune systems to look for.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#272

Post by thehappypm »

simonCGN wrote: post #65

It it a Biontech vaccine. Pfizer is only the manufacturer. After all, you also do not call the MacBook a Foxconn Laptop.

It's more like calling a Dell an Intel. Intel arguably provided the most important R&D in the heart of the computer. But the manufacturing, testing, distribution, branding, sales, negotiations, regulations, etc is all Dell. So go ahead and call your PC an Intel, but it's not wrong to call it a Dell either.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#273

Post by reedjosh »

bart_spoon wrote: post #257
reedjosh wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't just walk in. That said I know several people that have had it. Some elderly with existing conditions. Worst case was my aunt who got pneumonia from it. She's in her mid sixties and diabetic. She was in the hospital for a week. Was in the emergency room with my son a few months back, not overflowing or anything, but I wasn't there to track Covid cases.

Well I've had two family members die from it and another on death's door in the hospital and now is losing her hair months after recovery, so anecdotes can go both ways.

I'm also not claiming anecdotes are what are making up my mind. I was simply responding to the suggestion that I walk into a hospital.

I too believe that anecdotes are poor evidence at best, and I completely believe others have had 180* experiences from myself.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#274

Post by Pyramus »

reedjosh wrote: post #94
garmaine wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to your local hospital and see for yourself how deadly the disease is.

I can't just walk in. That said I know several people that have had it. Some elderly with existing conditions. Worst case was my aunt who got pneumonia from it. She's in her mid sixties and diabetic. She was in the hospital for a week. Was in the emergency room with my son a few months back, not overflowing or anything, but I wasn't there to track Covid cases.

I think parent's advice is solid. Covid sits at this sweet spot where it's not that bad for young folks, but it's easily transmissible and mortality increases exponentially with age. Which means certain demographics will be hit disproportionally hard.

At the same time only a small fraction, say 10-20%, of the population has had a Covid infection. So while some are hit hard, at the same time it might not affect you and the people around you too much.

Maybe ask your family doctor/general practitioner, or you have a nurse in your network or wider family, or somebody working in a hospital or care home? Also speaking to older folks like parents or grand-parents can be helpful to get another perspective.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#275

Post by MockObject »

Pyramus wrote: post #256
yonaguska wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is recommended not to vaccinate within 6 months of infection. 24/7 ads and encouragement for people to get the vaccine, almost to the point that it's a moral virtue means that tons of people are getting the vaccine, even having recently caught covid-19.

You can't get the vaccine without anamnesis/checking your medical history, and one item is prior infection.

Not in the US. I got my first vaccine shot, Moderna, with no medical consultation at all. Nobody asked me if I'd gotten Covid already.

And I had never heard about this six month interval until this moment.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#276

Post by nickthemagicman »

bavent wrote: post #225
nickthemagicman wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're under 55 and are healthy your chances of dying from this virus are basically non-existent. You'll get a sniffle/fever for a few days and then be immune. Don't put an experimental drug into your body for no reason. Anyone who says variant or strains are a problem has merely to look at over 50% of the United States with no covid restrictions for months who are at record lows of infections and with minimal vac…

Tell that to my 30-year-old sister - who still has migraines and extreme fatigue a year after catching covid, who was healthy, an avid runner, and had no preexisting conditions before.

Whatever user flagged my comment.

That's B.S.

It's nothing but factual statements.

You can't just flag a statement because it disagrees with your narrative.

Lame.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#277

Post by maxerickson »

chitowneats wrote: post #242
Pyramus wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. If you are talking about pre-existing immunity from prior infection, the benefit may be less, and in fact it is recommended not to vaccinate within 6 months of infection. If you are talking about innate immunity or cross-immunity from SARS-Cov-1 it's super rare and hasn't been shown to be relevant in most Western countries. To see the (reduced) benefit even with prior infection just look at the numerous r…

It's also riskier for most folks to drive a car than to catch Covid. I agree that people should look at their specific case and do honest risk/benefit analysis. Most of what I've seen, however, feels more like herd mentality behavior based on one's political leanings. Or people feeling they genuinely don't have a choice, given impending requirements and restrictions from their local governments and employers. Edit: n…

I estimated that my risk from getting infected was similar to the lifetime risk of driving.

If I could get a shot that protected me from car accidents, I'd do that too.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#278

Post by MockObject »

Pyramus wrote: post #264
chitowneats wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also riskier for most folks to drive a car than to catch Covid. I agree that people should look at their specific case and do honest risk/benefit analysis. Most of what I've seen, however, feels more like herd mentality behavior based on one's political leanings. Or people feeling they genuinely don't have a choice, given impending requirements and restrictions from their local governments and employers. Edit: n…

As a European I do not understand what vaccination has to do with political leaning. It's even stranger that in the US pro-life (abortion) seems to correlate with pro-choice (vaccines)? I do understand however that society as a whole says "if you are not willing to take a negligible risk for us, we are not taking risks for you".

We are in an unfortunate state of hyper-polarization where, if one side advocates something, the other side feels compelled to reject it. Unfortunately, this has even extended into medicine. Many such cases! Sad!

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#279

Post by thehappypm »

ddeck wrote: post #90
simonCGN wrote: post #65

It it a Biontech vaccine. Pfizer is only the manufacturer. After all, you also do not call the MacBook a Foxconn Laptop.

Pfizer (and Fosun) is also the distributor, ran the trials, and handled much of the public/regulator/media facing communications. As such, the Pfizer branding is not surprising. Production is a multi-step process involving both Pfizer and BioNTech. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfizer%E2%80%93BioNTech_COVID-...

Likewise, look at how Astra-Zeneca made many missteps, mishandling data, sending out wrong doses in trials. Pfizer did not make these mistakes. The distributing company not only matters, it matters a LOT.

Re: Current RNA vaccines protect against worrying coronavirus variants

#280

Post by g3e0 »

bawolff wrote: post #120
sigmaprimus wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank You, that is what I needed to hear and it sounds reasonable, what sort of proteins does it produce? Just the spiked ones or longer strands like DNA? Could You also offer up another TL;DR answer as to why the booster seems to present significantly more side effects? Thanks

FYI DNA, is not a protein. The mRNA molecules in the vaccine just contain the instructions for the spike protein. https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source... has a good breakdown of what specificly it makes. To use an analogy to a computer - DNA is like the hard drive (long term storage but slow), RNA is like RAM (short term, degrades easily, but easy to transport and gets info where it needs to g…

This link is indeed a very good explanation of mRNA vaccines, probably the best that I've seen.

After I read it, I noticed that it was the first time anyone had ever tried to explain _exactly_ how these new vaccines worked, like down to the molecular level.

Most explanations I had seen were usually extremely high level (literally just "the RNA gets read by your cells, which then produce the spike protein, then the RNA is destroyed") or used analogies (as you have done here).

I don't consider myself a conspiracy theorist, but I admit I had been harbouring some concerns/fears over these new vaccines. This link is the only thing I have read that actually allayed those fears.

I think there is a lesson here.

I have a feeling that everyone fears stuff they don't understand, at least a little bit.

I know that the high level explanation is technically correct, but here's the problem: Many conspiracy theories are actually _extremely_ detailed. I have personally seen covid conspiracies that appear to be backed up by scientific papers.

This is what the truth is competing against. A basic, high level "ELI5" explanation is never going to convince a conspiracy theorist who is looking at a stack of science papers.

So I think this link is very important, more people need to read and share it.

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