Trump • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump

#271

Post by smsm42 » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 12:59 AM UTC

kmiroslav wrote: post #5

The only things Trump is right about are the exact same things that every politician says: > He's right that many Americans are getting screwed by the system. He’s right that the economy is not growing nearly fast enough. He's right that we're drowning in political correctness, and that broken campaign finance laws have bred a class of ineffective career politicians. It's demagoguery 101.

I would question the assumption that every politician says PC is something negative that we have too much of. Certainly I'd have hard time finding many left-wing politicians saying that.

Re: Trump

#272

Post by smsm42 » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 1:05 AM UTC

hubert123 wrote: post #190

leepowers wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He said that a judge of Mexican descent isn't treating him fairly, and that it is probably because of his heritage. The judge is an _American_ of Mexican ethnicity. Trump said that the judge gave unfair rulings because of the judge's ethnicity. Trump is advocating that ethnicity "trumps" citizenship, judicial duty, or any other personal and professional virtues. As Paul Ryan correctly noted this kind of essentialis…

When a judge joins a group called LaRaza "the race", a violent mexican affiliated group that burns american flags and wants to return California to Mexico then maybe, just maybe race does have something to do with the ideas that this judge espouses and hence why that judge's race SEEMINGLY influences his decisions. Surely not even you think that Trump is an actual racist, as in: he thinks mexicans are worth less as h…

FYI "the race" is not the only meaning of "la raza" (surprise, word can have several meaning) and not the one meant in "La Raza". And the group is not called "La Raza" either. It is called San Diego La Raza Bar Association.

Re: Trump

#273

Post by smsm42 » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 1:11 AM UTC

I am no fan of Trump (in fact, I think selecting Trump is a huge problem for Republican party and he's one of the worst candidates the GOP had lately), but the post seems to be repeatedly confusing actual Trump with media myth of Trump (not uncommon among both supporters and detractors, and somewhat excusable given how much media manipulation Trump engages in).

No, Trump did not blame Obama in Orlando shooting. No, Trump is not future Hitler. No, Trump is most probably not a racist either (despite his extremely despicable and idiotic comments about Judge Curiel - but those probably are not driven by racism but rather by a primitive strategy of pre-spinning the future embarrassing loss of a class-action lawsuit). And probably not a misogynist either, despite his despicable and idiotic comments about Megyn Kelly and others, at least his record suggests otherwise.

Yes, he's rude, he's boorish, he's a pompous and shameless liar, and he is as close to a conman as one can be without being actually convicted in any criminal case. He has a lot of real flaws. Too many for my taste (see above). Inventing imaginary ones is both unnecessary and does not makes anything better. One does not beat Trump by going down to his level. He is a champion at his level, it's not where you have a chance to beat him.

P.S. And no, there's no risk in criticizing Trump, at least not higher than expressing any common political opinion. In fact, right now there's a measurable risk of supporting Trump - I've seen people beaten up for visiting Trump rally in the very city I live in - but if you do it over the internet, the risk is small. Though there has been personal destruction campaigns waged over the internet, I have yet to see one waged against someone for criticizing Trump. In fact, most of the press will be doing it with extreme vigor for next 5 months at least, and if Trump wins - for next 4 years with vigor not seen since the Bush times.

Which for me may be one of the few positive things in Trump winning - at least we will not have anymore journalists drooling over the president and describing how they get something warm running down their leg each time they see him (or her, as it may happen in the alternative case). That's not what the press is supposed to be doing in a working democracy. The press should bite, not lick the hands of power.

Re: Trump

#274

Post by mikeyouse » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 1:18 AM UTC

hubert123 wrote: post #190

leepowers wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He said that a judge of Mexican descent isn't treating him fairly, and that it is probably because of his heritage. The judge is an _American_ of Mexican ethnicity. Trump said that the judge gave unfair rulings because of the judge's ethnicity. Trump is advocating that ethnicity "trumps" citizenship, judicial duty, or any other personal and professional virtues. As Paul Ryan correctly noted this kind of essentialis…

When a judge joins a group called LaRaza "the race", a violent mexican affiliated group that burns american flags and wants to return California to Mexico then maybe, just maybe race does have something to do with the ideas that this judge espouses and hence why that judge's race SEEMINGLY influences his decisions. Surely not even you think that Trump is an actual racist, as in: he thinks mexicans are worth less as h…

Believe it or not, unaffiliated groups can have similar names. The Judge is a member of California La Raza Lawyers Association which is entirely different and shares no common cause with the National Council of La Raza.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/06/...

Re: Trump

#275

Post by smsm42 » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 1:18 AM UTC

splawn wrote: post #194

clevernickname wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When you're white, you don't know what it's like to be poor." -- Bernie Sanders

Correct me if I am wrong, but your premise here looks like a meaningless semantic argument while ignoring why racism is bad to begin with.

Racism is bad to begin with because it reduces the vast complexity of human experience, character, circumstance and rights to single, largely meaningless in the context, genetic/ethnic characteristic. Now tell me, how Sanders is not doing the same, at least partially, but substantially, saying white people can't really experience poverty?

Re: Trump

#276

Post by jasonlaramburu » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 1:36 AM UTC

spoiledtechie wrote: post #95

Oh how I am disparaged by Sam Altmans words. Not because they are wrong, but because they seem naive. Trump is right about the problem. His solutions are a more verbose than most. I am reminded of a quote "We must not paint with pale pastels, but with bold colors" Trump is using bold colors to address change. Mexican Judge - When has it not been heard that many white judges have shown prejudice against a black person…

People compare Trump to Hitler because they both employed racism as a campaign tactic. Read a book of German history in the 1930's. Hitler rose to power on the (false) claim that Jews had an unfair advantage in post-war German society, and should be eliminated. Trump claims that Mexicans have an unfair advantage in American society and should be deported. What else is there to understand?

Re: Trump

#277

Post by jasonlaramburu » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 1:40 AM UTC

spoiledtechie wrote: post #95

Oh how I am disparaged by Sam Altmans words. Not because they are wrong, but because they seem naive. Trump is right about the problem. His solutions are a more verbose than most. I am reminded of a quote "We must not paint with pale pastels, but with bold colors" Trump is using bold colors to address change. Mexican Judge - When has it not been heard that many white judges have shown prejudice against a black person…

"Its not a long shot to say another race can practice prejudice against a white man, when white men and white judges have been doing it for so long."

You said it yourself: white men haven't been systematically discriminated against in the US for centuries, but People of Color have been. It's not about practicing prejudice. It's about leveling the playing field so that every American has equal opportunity, regardless of their genetic makeup.

Re: Trump

#278

Post by splawn » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 1:41 AM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #275

splawn wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct me if I am wrong, but your premise here looks like a meaningless semantic argument while ignoring why racism is bad to begin with.

Racism is bad to begin with because it reduces the vast complexity of human experience, character, circumstance and rights to single, largely meaningless in the context, genetic/ethnic characteristic. Now tell me, how Sanders is not doing the same, at least partially, but substantially, saying white people can't really experience poverty?

Imo, racism isn't bad because it oversimplifies the complexity of human experience. It is bad because it degrades in a very direct way the human experience of the group that it is targeting. I don't see how that statement does this. Poor white people have advantages that poor black people don't have because of racism... I don't see why you consider it racist to point that out. Its the opposite because it is highlighting inequality not causing it... or at least that is how it looks to me.

Re: Trump

#279

Post by Everhusk » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 1:46 AM UTC

selectron wrote: post #250

Everhusk wrote: post #7

> And without it, we’ll lose our position as the most powerful country in the world. Why is this a bad thing? Isn't the goal of globalization to start thinking of our planet as a whole?

As an American, I care much more about the fate of America than I do about the fate of Europe. People are tribal animals.

Perhaps, or maybe people were* tribal animals, just as they were once cavemen.

Globalization progresses mankind forward, it will ultimately make us better versions of ourselves. The root of Trump's evil is trying to reverse this progress by locking down borders and rejecting religions that are not the norm in America.

Re: Trump

#280

Post by giaour » Tue, Jun 21, 2016, 2:02 AM UTC

throwanem wrote: post #212

outlace wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taken in context that quote is not very shocking and certainly wasn't racist. Moreover he clarified his remarks the very next day. Trump's remarks about the judge are racist in any context and he repeated them for several days. It's rather disingenuous to compare this to Trump and suggest that it's even in the same league as what Trump said.

I don't think anyone would be shocked to hear an assertion that a white judge had mistreated someone who wasn't white on the basis of the latter's race. There might (or might not) be public debate over whether the assertion was true, but no one would be appalled merely at the claim's having been made. (Indeed, such claims are made daily and have been for many years, yet rarely seem to be regarded as less newsworthy f…

Trump decided to use his position as the presumptive presidential nominee of a major political party to interfere in in a civil suit related to his personal business interests. That alone makes me wonder if he would abuse the power of his office should we win the election. That he did so by invoking the judge's race made him look desperate and unable to control his own temper.

I'm sure you're right that defendants in trials say stupid shit about judges, and I'm sure some of those comments are overtly racist. If the races in this situation were reversed, I still wouldn't vote for the hot-headed loudmouth.