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Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

marginalrevolution.com

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Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#251

Post by cutemonster »

roveo wrote: post #240
jjgreen wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be an astonishing feat, just logistically. Do you have evidence of fraud on that scale?

Ummm, yes. There’s Shpilkin’s famous research (dont know if available in English) suggesting that about 30% of latest Duma election ballots were fake. And what people also don’t understand is that they falsify on all levels. First, they persecute their opponents and deny them access to media. If they think an opponent has a chance and isn’t sufficiently toothless, they just don’t register them. Then they cast fake ba…

This is also a failure of the news media, to not more clearly explain to people what Putin is doing and that the election results he declares, is a joke.

End result, some people here for real believing that the people in Russia supports Putin.

It's depressing that the newspapers let themselves be used by him as a tool for manipulation

It's also annoying, I think, that the newspapers keep calling him the "president".

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#252

Post by lionkor »

oh_sigh wrote: post #131

It's embarrassing the amount of individuals/corporations that are deciding to screw over random Russian citizens, who have a fairly good chance of not even supporting the war. The next time an Islamic terrorist attacks the US, let's use this as precedent for denying random Muslims access to civic culture across the globe. Lovely world we're building.

Grammarly stopped working today for Russians, which just makes some people's jobs over there harder.

If anyone knows a good alternative (other than LanguageTool), let me know

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#253

Post by dragonwriter »

lionkor wrote: post #250
throwaway5752 wrote: post #127

Russian nationals and teams have been removed from FIFA, IHL, and many other competitions. It isn't fair, but it isn't fair that Ukraine has had its sovereignty violated by an unprovoked invasion. It is intrinsically biased to vet individuals based on their personal political beliefs, that seems like it would be worse. So the alternatives are to allow Russian nationals / national teams or to not allow them. These are…

It wasn't an unprovoked invasion, and rarely any invasion is. I dont support it at all, but I want to point out that this was an avoidable and certainly provoked war.

> It wasn't an unprovoked invasion,

It was under the usual meaning of that phrase, which doesn't merely refer to anything that bugs the invader, but something rising to the level of a legal casus belli such that the invasion is not the crime of aggression. (It also occurred in 2014; the current crisis is an escalation of the invasion, not the initiation of the crime against peace.)

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#254

Post by cutemonster »

altcognito wrote: post #99
shtopointo wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea what is the solution when the west throws sanctions but keeps buying Russian oil and gas? Basically bankrolling this invasion. Like others have said the solution to this crisis might be “drill baby drill” but that’s unfortunately more toxic or an argument than a country getting bombed to the ground. I guess we can stomach the war but not domestic oil and gas production.

I would definitely support stop buying Russian gas as well. I encourage folks to call their reps as I will. (for those in the states)

I don't mind wearing extra t-shirts indoors, or even a jacket or winter cap. (Seriously, in case anyone wonders)

Good for the environment and world safety

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#255

Post by cutemonster »

goto11 wrote: post #247
cutemonster wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> weaken him and his power structure and undermine his public support A problem is, these things can also make him stronger? And increase pubic support. If people start getting "bullied" because they happened to be born in Russia, then maybe some of them will start disliking Europe, and think "Putin not so bad after all". What if you threw stones through someone's window, because they were born in Russia? Do you thin…

Putin only got stronger and bolder after the mild and ineffectual international response to the annexation of Crimea. So you are basally saying, if the West does nothing, Putin gets stronger, if the West strike back against Russia, Putin also gets stronger. So what do you suggest could possibly work?

Most sanctions make sense to me.

If I say, "this animal looks cute but it might bite", then, I'm not saying that all animals will bite you.

One sanction seems maybe-bad. But I'm not saying all sanctions are bad. On the contrary, most are good I think, eg SWIFT.

I want more sanctions: stop the gas.

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#256

Post by goto11 »

ZainRiz wrote: post #140
goto11 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing a dictator to invade a neighboring country which he don't think had a right to exist, is how you end up with genocide.

Are you claiming Alexander Grischuk allowed Russia to invade Ukraine? (something he's been openly critical of?) How much more critical have you been of your own country invading other nations?

> Are you claiming Alexander Grischuk allowed Russia to invade Ukraine?

The purpose of the cultural sanctions is not to punish the individual sportsmen or artist or change their opinions, the purpose is to undermine the popular support for the war and the Putin-regime.

The Putin regime have used sports as a point of national pride in order to strengthen popular support. So it stands to reason that excluding Russia from sports would weaken the regime in some degree.

Apparently many Russians are not even aware they are involved in a war due to the massive propaganda and censorship. Maybe Russia getting excluded from all sports event might at least get them to ask some questions about what is going on?

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#257

Post by trhway »

NhanH wrote: post #241
trhway wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genocide and ethnic cleansing is already in full swing. Too late for "step on a path". As a Russian immigrant in US, i support kicking out from US or any other country any Russian who wouldn't condemn in straight clear words Putin's fascist regime and the genocide it conducts in Ukraine. Anything less is just a support of what is going on. For any public figure it is doubly so. Grischuk didn't even use the word "war"…

> Grischuk didn't even use the word "war" in order to not have issues with Russian government. He said he didn’t use the word “war” to avoid being censored, so that the Russian media can quote him directly.

That is BS. Government coming upon you for the "war" is exactly a statement one has to make in such situation if one is really against that war. Especially that the government just can't chase everybody uttering the word, and there are a lot of such people.

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#258

Post by [deleted] »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #166
Miner49er wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Though I’m curious - how much time in your opinion has to pass before Russians are allowed to participate again? I think the idea in this case is that since many Ukranians can't play, Russians shouldn't be able to either. So I would think the sanctions would end when Ukraine isn't fighting anymore, and can participate again. That's at least the IOC's stance. [0] [0] https://olympics.com/ioc/news/ioc-eb-recommends-n…

But no Ukrainian was banned from playing? Were any even invited?

[deleted]

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#259

Post by 0xedd »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #196
moralestapia wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a Russian in America gets hurt and goes to a hospital, should it be denied medical attention? Where do you draw the line, actually? If I'm not Russian but my parents are, should I be sanctioned as well? Again, where do you draw the line? If you happened to be at Russia, would you be okay if everyone denied their services to you? If your country got involved into a conflict, and you don't even live there anymore, a…

You seem to be confused about the moral weight of being temporarily banned in gaming and sports tournaments to unprovoked invasion and warfare. They aren't equivalent. Your questions are just absurd slippery slope fallacies that I won't give the dignity of answering, and you should be a little embarrassed about using that technique in a good faith discussion. Which article in the UN link that you sent would categoriz…

Just because you can speak or write, doesn't mean you should. Nothing you said is reasonable.

Japanese American imprisonment without due process or access to legal counsel during WW2 was condemnable. You advocate the opposite. I mean, nothing was written against then, was it?

Advocating for an individual's human rights and disassociation from their government's actions doesn't mean unequivocal support for the latter.

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#260

Post by orwin »

gpm wrote: post #113
jstx1 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to represent Russia, the organisers could let them play without the Russian flag next to the players name.

To add to this, it seems like chess players semi-frequently change what flag they play under, and can play under no flag at all. Alireza Firouzja (world #2) for instance originally played under the Iranian flag, played under no flag for a year and a half, and now plays under the French flag. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alireza_Firouzja

Firouzja is now French. He did the right thing. Alexander Grishuk should be able too, i'm pretty sure the Ukrainian government would be thrilled to give him a passport, even for free and without the usual administrative red tape.
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