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Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

marginalrevolution.com

111–120 of 263 posts

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#111

It doesnt matter if the person themselves opposes the Ukrainian invasion, the person is representing Russia. Is it the tournament organizers job to vet the political views of every single participant to make sure they're sufficiently anti-putin? Blocking Russian participants isnt about blocking the individual people, its about sending a blanket statement across the board.

> the person is representing Russia It's not a team sport. One would think chess players represent themselves.

Most sports are not team sports, yet sportsmen represent their countries.

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#112
post #94

Eh, punishing individuals like this seems pointless, especially _after_ they've made their personal stance clear. Or at least, it doesn't "advance the game of chess", which is what organizers should care more about. There is probably some creative middle ground to be found here, such as awarding them without recognizing Russia, etc.

Yeah giving them the EU passports and just attributing them to „EU“

There is no "EU passport", just 27 national passports that also have "European Union" written next to the issuing country. It's only up to individual countries to issue their passports, also Norway isn't in the EU anyway.

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#113
post #25

It doesnt matter if the person themselves opposes the Ukrainian invasion, the person is representing Russia. Is it the tournament organizers job to vet the political views of every single participant to make sure they're sufficiently anti-putin? Blocking Russian participants isnt about blocking the individual people, its about sending a blanket statement across the board.

They don't have to represent Russia, the organisers could let them play without the Russian flag next to the players name.

To add to this, it seems like chess players semi-frequently change what flag they play under, and can play under no flag at all.

Alireza Firouzja (world #2) for instance originally played under the Iranian flag, played under no flag for a year and a half, and now plays under the French flag.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alireza_Firouzja

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#114

Eh, punishing individuals like this seems pointless, especially _after_ they've made their personal stance clear. Or at least, it doesn't "advance the game of chess", which is what organizers should care more about. There is probably some creative middle ground to be found here, such as awarding them without recognizing Russia, etc.

Oh look another HN Russia sympathizer telling us literally any intervention is pointless.

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#115

Gotta love how discrimination is so easily spread. Like, this guy has said very many times in public that he doesn’t support the invasion, but he’s Russian, y’know? It’s sad how humanity just keeps doing the same thing over and over…

This is completely, totally wrong. There's no "discrimination" here - Grischuk is a Russian citizen, which is why he's being kicked out of the tournament, along with the other Russian citizens mentioned - their ethnicity is a non-factor.

The only relevant issue is the question as to whether all Russian citizens (regardless of ethnicity) should be banned from these kinds of events (more generally: have sanctions and sanction-adjacent actions taken against them), or just those who have directly contributed to the invasion (Putin, his military advisors, some Russian oligarchs maybe?) - which is a good topic for discussion. Claiming "discrimination", on the other hand, is factually incorrect, blatant emotional manipulation & unnecessary flamewar-bait, and does not belong on HN.

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#117
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed - I can't believe how quickly the "mainstream" had adopted a hatred basically of a whole people based on the actions of an autocratic leader that does not represent them, and where speaking out would almost certainly have very bad consequences. We should be doing everything we can to stop Putin from waging war, but casual hatred of a group is not helpful or appropriate, even if it's the obvious extension of al…

I do not believe this can be classified as hatred.

That is true. Hatred by itself is inactive.

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#118
I am always deeply disappointed with how little civic and ethical values the average person has left.

Whenever the common narrative finds a way to blame something or someone, the collective dehumanizes the target in a way that's quite terrifying, actually. People love to parrot about how "dictators are bad", "hitler was bad", etc, but when they find themselves in trivial situations where they have to show what they're made of not much more comes out of it.

Without saying much about it, let me remind you that there is a Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which, among other things, it's pretty clear that no one should be discriminated because of their origin or nationality. Every single "developed" country shares a set of laws that guarantee similar rights to their citizens (and visitors!).

Whether you think that people who are in these situations are having their rights dishonored or not it's up to you, I just want to remind people that some blades cut both ways so one has to be careful about which one is being honed today.

Disclaimer: I'm not Russian, never been to Russia, no friends in Russia either. I am a human being and have empathy for all other fellow human beings.

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#119
post #43

Sanctions are often universal rather than person specific. Grischuk isn't being banned for his specific political beliefs. He is being banned as an action against his country. Some of the ways we punish that country are by punishing its people. It doesn't mean the people receiving that punishment are guilty of anything, it is just the method of putting pressure on that country's government to reverse course. This is…

So there is no reason Alexander Grischuk should comment about the conflict. He has nothing to gain and everything to lose.

Re: Norway Chess cancels Alexander Grischuk

#120
post #48
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Karpov and Karjakin support Putin.

Sure, and Nepo, Grischuk, Svidler etc. don't. Norway Chess treats these two groups the same.

are they supposed to vet individuals with a twitter litmus test? That, in some sense, seems worse.
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