CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads • Hacker News Board

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#251

Post by davinic » Mon, Sep 09, 2019, 5:32 PM UTC

zaphar wrote: post #135

tdy_err wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three are and have always been three components of e-liquid: - propylene glycol (used in ice-cream soda etc) - vegetable glycerin - food flavoring Besides proportions changing the only other variant is the type of flavoring. It's not actually too complicated. And If one of those ingredients was suddenly tainted people using vaporizers would not be the only ones affected, of course.

All three of those elements are not usually vaporized and then inhaled in large quantities. Extrapolation from their effects when ingested is unlikely to apply in these cases. Your conclusion does not follow from the evidence.

Not necessarily. The first two substances have been vaporized extensively in the past as fog juice. Modern fog fluids use (IIRC) a mix of different glycol formulations, but glycerin is no longer used in any commercial products due to health concerns.

[Edit] I'll add that they were studied extensively in regards to actors and performers, and Actors' Equity defines many guidelines around usage and exposure: https://www.actorsequity.org/resources/Producers/safe-and-sa...

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#252

Post by lonelappde » Mon, Sep 09, 2019, 5:32 PM UTC

ozzmotik wrote: post #88

slau wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve stated this before: cigarettes will kill me with a 100% probability (I was smoking over a pack a day). Maybe vaping will not kill me. Maybe I’ll grow a third arm in 20 years. I don’t know. But I have to play the odds; “100% certainty” vs “maybe not”, I know which one I’m going for. Also, I’ve gone from 9mg of nicotine to 1mg in 2 years, because vaping allows me to monitor and measure exactly how much nicotine I…

i would argue that on a long enough timescale, anything will 100% kill you. not trying to be cheeky, more just trying to say that that sort of argument only really works for people who are active antismokers; most smokers (i think, from personal experience) are very aware of the danger of smoking, but feel that it offsets some condition of reality that makes it more tolerable even compared to the reduced lifetime. th…

Yes, you described addiction, which is a local optimum compared to being a little less addicted, because addiction traps your brain. Breaking addiction is better buy not adjacent.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#253

Post by lonelappde » Mon, Sep 09, 2019, 5:35 PM UTC

wp381640 wrote: post #105

moksly wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure vaping is actually reducing potential harm? Because our national health agency isn’t[1]. As I understand it, a few brands come with a lower risk of certain tobacco induced cancers compared to smoking. Which is harm reduction, I guess, but research is suggesting that all vaping comes with greater risk to the respiratory system and heart. Of course the real issue in evaluating the safety of e-cigerates is…

> Are you sure vaping is actually reducing potential harm? Yep. I quit smoking via 3 years of vaping and tapering down on nicotine. I've referred and seen no less than a half-dozen people I know do the same - some of the hardest smokers i've known (including my own fathers 40 year+ pack a day habit) If anybody asks i'll always turn people onto vaping - even if they don't ask i'll push them towards it, nothing has got…

How long ago did you quit?

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#254

Post by cthalupa » Mon, Sep 09, 2019, 5:37 PM UTC

This seems to be incredibly well correlated with the increase in use of oil based thickening agents, particularly for black market cartridges. This year we've seen a lot of these products gain popularity, along with the rise of people selling cartridges in packages that look legitimate (Dank Vapes, Mario Karts, etc.) but are just cartridge packages, with no company selling THC carts with that name or product line existing. We've also seen a rise of rip-off packaging of real brands appearing on sites like AliExpress. People purchase these, fill them with something that resembles THC concentrate, and then sell them.

I know that correlation isn't causation, but my gut feeling is that we're going to find out that these additives are the culprit. To my knowledge, we're not seeing any reports of this occurring for people that are part of a state-run and well regulated medical marijuana program, where many of these products have been available for years. For recreational use, even in states that have legalized it, the stringency of regulations vary for dispensaries, so I don't know that I would necessarily assume that a cartridge purchased at a dispensary is necessarily safe from this sort of thing, either.

I'm not a research scientist or medical professional of any sort, though, so no one should take any of this as anything but a layman's PoV.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#255

Post by lonelappde » Mon, Sep 09, 2019, 5:38 PM UTC

keithwhor wrote: post #224

When the CDC tells people to stop eating a specific food because of disease outbreak, even if rare, people stop eating that food. When you dive in to the comments here, keep in mind a number of the posts are from addicts minimizing cognitive dissonance. The internet would’ve looked the same when cigarettes were first blamed for lung disease as well.

When there is an e coli outbreak, authorities are very specific about which batch of produce was affected. They don't say to stop eating all spinach or all vegetables.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#256

Post by Herrin » Mon, Sep 09, 2019, 5:38 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #220

ChrisLTD wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2017, nearly 40,000 people died from gun violence in the United States. The mass shootings are emblematic of a larger and uniquely American problem. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/18/us/gun-deaths.html

Right but... tackling "gun deaths" and tackling specifically mass shootings are two completely different problems, and it seems like gun control proposals are always aimed at preventing specifically mass shootings which, as I've said, is high hanging fruit. If you are looking to prevent gun suicides (which constitutes nearly 2/3 of that 40,000 deaths figure you quoted), you would see more handgun-related regulations…

If the CDC weren't explicitly prevented from studying gun violence[1], they might be able to look into these problems. It's too soon to know if the recent (2018) changes to the interpretation will make a difference.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickey_Amendment

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#257

Post by lonelappde » Mon, Sep 09, 2019, 5:40 PM UTC

katet wrote: post #205

Screw it, let's wade into this one briefly (because I've searched and nobody has mentioned this as far as I can see): I currently live in South East Asia, the land of palm-oil-plantations-as-far-as-you-can-see, and it's that time of year again: slash and burn. There is so much particulate matter in the air, that you can see the street lights illuminating it, you can't see islands from the shoreline, and schools will…

The CDC is for a country that, for now, doesn't have massive open-air fires in populated areas. That's why it doesn't recommend wearing masks at all times like your local authority should.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#258

Post by qes » Mon, Sep 09, 2019, 5:55 PM UTC

davewritescode wrote: post #124

milofeynman wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I have put the pieces together correctly, they were sketchy THC carts that used a vitamin e oil to achieve super high concentrations of THC (95%) or so. Normal THC carts don't have that high of a concentration. I'm guessing some backyard chemist realized they could cram more in using vitamin e oil over the more standard vape oils used (propylene glycol, etc).

It's not to achieve high concentrations, it's to disguise the fact that it's been cut at all. Distillate that's minimally cut will typically be very very thick. The more it's cut, the thinner and runnier it will be. Customers figured this out and started equating runny pens with low quality. Dealers basically responded by using cuts that aren't obvious. This doesn't make the concentration any higher but fools the end…

Are you sure? Because it's not that easy to dissolve cannabinoids, except in lipids. I haven't been into making carts myself in a number of years, but back when I did the major hassle and challenge was actually getting your extract to dissolve, and people were experimenting with formulations to get better mixtures with less effort and heat.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#259

Post by aarong11 » Mon, Sep 09, 2019, 5:58 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #245

tdy_err wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three are and have always been three components of e-liquid: - propylene glycol (used in ice-cream soda etc) - vegetable glycerin - food flavoring Besides proportions changing the only other variant is the type of flavoring. It's not actually too complicated. And If one of those ingredients was suddenly tainted people using vaporizers would not be the only ones affected, of course.

The digestive system and the respiratory system are quite different systems. You can safely drink lots of water. A fairly small quantity in your lungs is a big problem.

Just a sidenote, a lot of nebulized drugs also contain propylene glycol. I know it's not quite the same delivery mechanism as vaping, but it does end up in the lungs.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#260

Post by fragmede » Mon, Sep 09, 2019, 5:58 PM UTC

cthalupa wrote: post #254

This seems to be incredibly well correlated with the increase in use of oil based thickening agents, particularly for black market cartridges. This year we've seen a lot of these products gain popularity, along with the rise of people selling cartridges in packages that look legitimate (Dank Vapes, Mario Karts, etc.) but are just cartridge packages, with no company selling THC carts with that name or product line exi…

The death in Oregon was linked to a "an electronic cigarette containing marijuana oil from a legal dispensary".

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2019/09/05/vaping...