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CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

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Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#221

Post by DanBC »

pavelludiq wrote: post #148
DanBC wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Agreed, there's a lot of FUD, but a lot of it is coming from sources that give me a lot of hesitation to doubt (lots of public health leaders, tobacco control groups, WHO people) None of these sources are saying that vaping is comparable to smoking in terms of harms caused. They're saying that some harm is caused, and that we don't know what harms are caused, and so the precautionary principle means we should make…

> we should make sure that non-smokers do not take up vaping How about we let adults do as they please instead. The most anybody should ever do about vaping is warn people that maybe it's not the safest thing in the world. Instead in the EU we have a ridiculous law that makes it illegal to sell nicotine liquid in container bigger than 10ml, which means that if I don't want to spend twice what I used on cigarettes, I…

> How about we let adults do as they please instead.

I don't understand why your post is so angry. In England there are no laws that stop people vaping. We have a government organisation that has to make recommendations for public health, and they've given their recommendation.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#222

Post by DanBC »

julianlam wrote: post #159
pavelludiq wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we should make sure that non-smokers do not take up vaping How about we let adults do as they please instead. The most anybody should ever do about vaping is warn people that maybe it's not the safest thing in the world. Instead in the EU we have a ridiculous law that makes it illegal to sell nicotine liquid in container bigger than 10ml, which means that if I don't want to spend twice what I used on cigarettes, I…

Letting adults do as they please is a common refrain, but when you're living in a country with subsidized healthcare, the government has an incentive (at the macro level) to not let you do stupid things that raise healthcare costs, which are then passed on to the population at large. In America, you break it, you buy it. Everywhere else, I have no problem with a bit of governmental oversight to make sure people don't…

But even in this supposed nanny-state of the UK with it's single payer commie healthcare there are no laws preventing people buying and using vapes.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#223

Post by drewmol »

Reelin wrote: post #74
atlasunshrugged wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who was in the industry, what do you think about the argument of vaping being a safer alternative? I see pretty mixed things in the health community but it's tough because some of the argument seems to be that the tobacco industry has acted nefariously in the past so we can't trust any innovation in the space. Is there any known experience similar to vaping/smoking of today that has really minimal health c…

> vaping being a safer alternative A safer alternative to what? Smoking cigarettes? There's absolutely no question that it is. One is a plant product (smoke is bad to inhale) that naturally contains a number chemicals that you probably don't want to be consuming. On top of this, there are additional additives (which vary by manufacturer) that also have significant health effects. Overview ( https://en.wikipedia.org/w…

>The safety of vaping is entirely dependent on what's in the liquid you're vaporizing

This is statement is incorrect. It discludes the very real and proven health threats that heavy metal consumption can enlist.

A simple understanding of the chemistry involved is enough to infer the presence of dangers not dependant on the liquid being used. If you cook an acidic tomatoe sauce in a completely copper pot... the safty of consuming that sauce is not entirely dependant on the tomatoes and the same applies to vaping[0].

[0] https://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/news/20180226/toxic-...

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#224

Post by keithwhor »

When the CDC tells people to stop eating a specific food because of disease outbreak, even if rare, people stop eating that food.

When you dive in to the comments here, keep in mind a number of the posts are from addicts minimizing cognitive dissonance. The internet would’ve looked the same when cigarettes were first blamed for lung disease as well.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#225

Post by cheeseomlit »

julianlam wrote: post #159
pavelludiq wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we should make sure that non-smokers do not take up vaping How about we let adults do as they please instead. The most anybody should ever do about vaping is warn people that maybe it's not the safest thing in the world. Instead in the EU we have a ridiculous law that makes it illegal to sell nicotine liquid in container bigger than 10ml, which means that if I don't want to spend twice what I used on cigarettes, I…

Letting adults do as they please is a common refrain, but when you're living in a country with subsidized healthcare, the government has an incentive (at the macro level) to not let you do stupid things that raise healthcare costs, which are then passed on to the population at large. In America, you break it, you buy it. Everywhere else, I have no problem with a bit of governmental oversight to make sure people don't…

Sounds like a good argument against subsidized healthcare to me

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#226

Post by zrobotics »

synaesthesisx wrote: post #40
milofeynman wrote: post #15

The thing causing this outbreak seems to have been someone using a vitamin e oil to increase the potency of their thx carts up to 95% or so. [0] I also believe they were out of Chicago. Or at least they shipped a lot of carts to Chicago/Illinois and then they spread out from there. But this is just from the cases I've read. Also from today Doctors have identified previously unrecognized characteristic of the vaping-r…

Wouldn’t diluting with vitamin E reduce potency?

Which, ironically, would mean that someone vaping THC would need to vape even more to achieve the same effects; consuming more of the liquid containing the dilutants.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#227

Post by moftz »

smashthepants wrote: post #183

Would this apply to vaping 'dry herb'? Or is it specific to oil?

I'm guessing this is strictly related to people using bootleg THC cartridges. You can buy empty carts on ebay/Alibaba and fill them with whatever you want. I'm sure there is a proper way to make THC vape juice and it doesn't involve using vitamin E oil. THC is soluble in vegetable glycerin which is the same component used in standard nicotine vape juice so I don't understand why Vitamin E is being used in the mixtures. Only thing that makes sense is that is being used as a thinning agent or some moron thought THC "oil" was made by actually using oil.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#228

Post by brandonmenc »

otakucode wrote: post #182
zelienople wrote: post #152

Several things have failed to show up in the comments that might illuminate this discussion. (1) The condition is called lipoid pneumonia, which comes from inhaling organic fats and oils. (2) The CDC reports and early studies indicate that the condition has appeared in some people who only vaped with nicotine in glycerol (which is also sometimes called glycerin or glycerine). (3) Glycerol (the Christmas molecule--HO…

Whatever the cause, it has to be something extremely subtle and very unlikely to occur. We know that from the simple numbers. Tens of millions of people vaping on an hourly basis for years amounting to ~500 cases means that whatever is occurring is a freak occurrence and not some direct consequence that has a high likelihood of occurring in typical people.

> Tens of millions of people vaping on an hourly basis for years amounting to ~500 cases

Vaping is new.

Maybe these are the early incidents of a yet-to-be-discovered chronic condition that takes a decade plus of vaping to develop.

Hey, millions of high schoolers smoke cigarettes and none of them have lung cancer! (yet)

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#229

Post by ajross »

otakucode wrote: post #182
zelienople wrote: post #152

Several things have failed to show up in the comments that might illuminate this discussion. (1) The condition is called lipoid pneumonia, which comes from inhaling organic fats and oils. (2) The CDC reports and early studies indicate that the condition has appeared in some people who only vaped with nicotine in glycerol (which is also sometimes called glycerin or glycerine). (3) Glycerol (the Christmas molecule--HO…

Whatever the cause, it has to be something extremely subtle and very unlikely to occur. We know that from the simple numbers. Tens of millions of people vaping on an hourly basis for years amounting to ~500 cases means that whatever is occurring is a freak occurrence and not some direct consequence that has a high likelihood of occurring in typical people.

> Whatever the cause, it has to be something extremely subtle and very unlikely to occur.

We don't know that, or not with the interpretation I think you're making. I mean, the correlation here between vaping and lipoid pneumonia is objectively much stronger than it is between smoking and lung cancer after a similar amount of use.

I guess most epidemiologists would go with you and bet that this is "probably" not as bad, long term. But given the evidence at hand that's still a pretty significant risk.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#230

Post by cynic_ »

ChrisRR wrote: post #36

I knew something like this would happen. The market is flooded with cheap foreign liquids which no-one has any idea what's been put into them. How they've managed to bypass national trading standards is beyond me. But it means that now we've got an understudied activity, with people using liquids filled with who knows what. There was bound to be health risks sooner or later.

The cases are in the US and related THC containing liquids. So it makes no sense blaming foreign liquids.
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