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Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

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Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#241

Post by mkehrt »

burakemir wrote: post #127
gregw2 wrote: post #122

Those interested in this may find the following articles of interest: Microsoft goals [edit: err, Microsoft hiring manager vision-casting goal ] to convert 1 billion lines of code to rust by 2030 via automated tooling enabling "1 engineer, 1 month, 1 million lines of code": https://thenewstack.io/microsofts-bold-goal-replace-1b-lines... DARPA work towards automating converting C code to Rust using a mix of 6 differen…

It would be possible for me to give a more nuanced take, but the upshot is: none of that shit is going to work 100%. One may get local maxima like an unsafe bonanza, or something that introduces a custom runtime memory management discipline at the cost of performance etc. Fully equivalent C++ to Rust in full generality is mainly wishful thinking. Of course that does not mean one should not try it. See also my other c…

As I pointed out in a sibling comment, the plan isn't for it to work. This is a job posting for a researcher at MSR to investigate what it might look like someday.

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#243

Post by [deleted] »

stillpointlab wrote: post #210
Havoc wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it was the inclusion in the kernel. That locks it in as here to stay

I thought it got pushed back out? Wasn't there a big drama about this and Linus weighed in? Linus is a wise operator at this point. I often see him come in like a hammer to bash down squabbling, but then he allows the situation to evolve once things quiet down. I only saw the hammer so I'm not sure what the current state is now.

[deleted]

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#245

Post by nikanj »

Verdex wrote: post #50
meerita wrote: post #16

Good news they adopted Rust as Tier-1 language. I hope their Weather app stop consuming more than 1GB RAM https://www.notebookcheck.net/Windows-11-s-built-in-Weather-...

I feel like the weather app makes a lot of sense from a corporate politics point of view. A 1mb weather app would have a significantly less impressive pie chart associated with it come "here are our improvements" presentation. Also if times get tough and you're told to reduce headcount by 10%, who do you want to get rid of. Sally who knows the USB driver end to end or Todd who wrote the bloated 1gb weather app. (Don'…

Sally, obviously. Todd is much more likely to have a perfect haircut and immaculate fluency in corpotalk

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#246

Post by kibwen »

abbefaria27 wrote: post #209

What’s the story for Rust-C++ interoperability these days? That’s what kills adoption. Most C++ devs I know like the idea of Rust, but no one is going to go rewrite 30 years of working code. It needs to be something you can incorporate gradually.

Rust's raison d'être is to improve the confidence of the security-critical parts of your system. You don't need to rewrite all 30M lines of code to benefit from it, you just need to identify the 1% of your codebase with the greatest attack surface (e.g. any internet-facing string parser), cordon that part of the codebase off with a C ABI, and then convert that part to Rust. This is similar to how Firefox incorporates bits of Rust into its own C++ codebase over time (e.g. for parsing URLs).

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#247

Post by VimEscapeArtist »

germandiago wrote: post #82
VimEscapeArtist wrote: post #79

M$ choosing Rust might be the strongest argument for picking Go instead

They strike different balances. Rust is absolute performance, similar to C++. Go is deliver fast and get a very good performance to effort ratio.

It was meant as sarcasm, but judging by the downvotes, I clearly didn’t land it :)

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#248

Post by torginus »

missingcolours wrote: post #218
Verdex wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the weather app makes a lot of sense from a corporate politics point of view. A 1mb weather app would have a significantly less impressive pie chart associated with it come "here are our improvements" presentation. Also if times get tough and you're told to reduce headcount by 10%, who do you want to get rid of. Sally who knows the USB driver end to end or Todd who wrote the bloated 1gb weather app. (Don'…

The corporate dilemma between "I hired some less competent engineers and they're dragging the team down" and "I hired only highly capable engineers and now I have to give 10% of them bad reviews in stack ranking and later let them go"

I don't think this is a real dilemma - people hell bent on avoiding work can get by without shipping a single line of code for years.

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#249

Post by jen20 »

swozey wrote: post #152
nicman23 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i prefer the macos mindset if not the actual OS

I just looked and I think what I'm talking about, where they folded more specific permission callouts under a broad term "Full disk access" "local devices" etc used to be more granular before they updated that UI to match the iphone. If I got a jumpscare permission prompt on macos, I used to actually be concerned. Now they're all jumpscares for basic stuff. But I could be misremembering. I haven't liked any of the re…

If you really want to see what is doing what, you should install Little Snitch and Little Flocker. Many apps (from exactly the people you'd expect) are doing absolutely unhinged nonsense that no-one should put up with.
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