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Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

rustfoundation.org

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Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#141

Post by swozey »

ldobre wrote: post #106
Verdex wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the weather app makes a lot of sense from a corporate politics point of view. A 1mb weather app would have a significantly less impressive pie chart associated with it come "here are our improvements" presentation. Also if times get tough and you're told to reduce headcount by 10%, who do you want to get rid of. Sally who knows the USB driver end to end or Todd who wrote the bloated 1gb weather app. (Don'…

Also, showing the weather is a great excuse to ask permissions for the user location.

I've been doing forest service stuff for a year with almost no signal and often no gps without antenna and it's incredible what asks for location permission to run. My amazon bought LEDs (15+, 3-5 diff types) all check location before I can connect them. I wind up waiting 30 seconds sometimes more to turn lights on. My generator and inverter have to phone home so that lags constantly.

Also I've been shadowbanned from a bunch of social media sites and had problems with payment systems, etc because Starlink confuses companies tracking user locations to geoips etc.

Won't even get into the apps that look downloaded and usable until you open them with no signal and they don't work before phoning home.

I've been meaning to go through ALL my apps and delete everything I don't use, I haven't installed a new app in years.

Then you have MacOS now that has the most "wtf" level permission prompts that make you think everything is phoning home or trying to access stuff on your network when it's just connecting bluetooth devices or something daily. I don't know how many games I've installed that now show up as having full screen or keyboard control permissions just to use input devices. I work on this stuff and can deduce what it's doing, especially after googling it, but "Stupidgame needs control of your system" is wild to someone who doesn't, I'm sure.

I've been wondering if it's almost nefarious that they want to get people used to allowing these seemingly system wide controls to be given to.. everything, by hiding the security-ok things behind a giant red flag warning.

Sorry went on a tangent. I miss specific permissions notifications I can trust.

edit: Oh, my "fix" for most of this is fakegps and mocking my android systemwide gps location to whatever, if you go through this.

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#142

Post by Pannoniae »

bluGill wrote: post #131
suddenlybananas wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think beginner programmers are unlikely to use unsafe when learning rust but people coming from c or c++ who are beginners at rust might use unsafe all over the place.

Exactly - we have been using C or C++ for decades and most of us have a lot of experience. We think like programmers in the languages meaning we often do things that Rust won't allow without unsafe. A small percent of the time that is the right thing (which is why Rust have unsafe), but very often there is a Rust way that is just as performant if only we knew how to think like Rust programmers.

Sadly it still feels like it's one of the languages where the language doesn't trust you, it tries to force you to do things "the right way". I do love quite a few of its design like how traits are, not forcing every method into the declaration, and the standard library is much less crazy than the C++ version.

Sadly, other things a bit less so - the story for the thin battery-less stdlib + npm-style churn encourages bloat, and the semantics are obsessed with safety at a heavy cost to productivity unless you spam clone() and reference-counting - but then your program becomes slow, kind of negating the advantages, you might as well have written it in C# or something...

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#145

Post by nicman23 »

swozey wrote: post #141
ldobre wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, showing the weather is a great excuse to ask permissions for the user location.

I've been doing forest service stuff for a year with almost no signal and often no gps without antenna and it's incredible what asks for location permission to run. My amazon bought LEDs (15+, 3-5 diff types) all check location before I can connect them. I wind up waiting 30 seconds sometimes more to turn lights on. My generator and inverter have to phone home so that lags constantly. Also I've been shadowbanned from…

i prefer the macos mindset if not the actual OS

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#146

Post by JoshTriplett »

mr_00ff00 wrote: post #95
isolay wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether vibecoded Rust will be better than whatever they are doing now remains to be seen.

The question in terms of memory is, will vibe coded rust get around ownership issues by .clone()-ing everything. Maybe this has changed since I wrote Rust, but that was a classic beginner fix. Just throw memory at it.

https://github.com/luser/keep-calm-and-call-clone

"Keep calm and call clone" is a good strategy for getting things working. Don't prematurely optimize code until you know it's the bottleneck.

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#147

Post by uecker »

bluGill wrote: post #100
mr_00ff00 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question in terms of memory is, will vibe coded rust get around ownership issues by .clone()-ing everything. Maybe this has changed since I wrote Rust, but that was a classic beginner fix. Just throw memory at it.

The other things I've seen beginners do is throw unsafe at everything.

Yes, but this this is not a problem at all because any bug caused by misuse of unsafe (or unwrap) is entirely the fault of the programmer (or the AI) and not of Rust. /s

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#148

Post by eterm »

gregw2 wrote: post #122

Those interested in this may find the following articles of interest: Microsoft goals [edit: err, Microsoft hiring manager vision-casting goal ] to convert 1 billion lines of code to rust by 2030 via automated tooling enabling "1 engineer, 1 month, 1 million lines of code": https://thenewstack.io/microsofts-bold-goal-replace-1b-lines... DARPA work towards automating converting C code to Rust using a mix of 6 differen…

There have also been repeated statements from NSA & CISA that they recommend all development should be done in memory safe languages.

It's abundantly clear that there is a strong headwind towards memory safety, whether that's Rust or GC'd languages.

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#149

Post by Pannoniae »

vablings wrote: post #74
bigfishrunning wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, the only domains that I think rust isn't suitable for are: * rapid-prototyping, where javascript and python are still top-tier * adding scriptability to existing programs, where lua and scheme (and python) are popular * Server-side API implementation (rust is usable here, but I think Go fits the slot better)

Rapid prototyping is almost a meme at this point. If you are hand rolling code old school, you will waste more time shoehorning JavaScript and python semantics into rust code and end up with worse quality that takes more time rather than writing it from rust. People did this a lot when rust was not as popular but there are plenty of very good rust programmers now who understand the language and can make programs that…

No, rapid development is essential when you're making games. It's not a "solved science", sure you can code something up and slap some programmer art on it then ship it but you very well know that won't be usable. You need to iterate on the gameplay and gamefeel a lot if you want something more than slop.

One way is sure the native language + embedded scripting language combo but that's got the trap of impedance mismatch i.e. you spend all your time making engine not game then it overruns. But in any case having a way to iterate fast is a hidden productivity superpower, look at how many game studios have Live++ licences on their webpage;)

Re: Rust is tier-1 language at Microsoft

#150

Post by 0x457 »

superkuh wrote: post #129

I hope this kind of thing means Rust stops making so many rapid breaking changes in th compiler. I've tried it twice, once in early 2021 once 2025. Both times I tried to compile a few random projects I found on the web, stuff like a wordpress fanfic scraper, a software defined radio program, etc. In 2021 my linux distro I was using had just been released 3 months prior but it's rustc already could not compile 2 of 3…

You can compile any old code with newer rustc as long as old project does not use unstable features that have changed/went away. What are you on? I recently recompiled project from 2015 with latest stable rust just fine.

All breaking changesin rust done via editions and you can mix-and-match editions.

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