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Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

news.patreon.com

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Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#241

Post by MikeRichardson »

InsomniacL wrote: post #208
Hnrobert42 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't charge 30% for physical good sold through apps on ios.

That's an interesting idea. What if, instead of 'subscribing' for $10, you purchase a grain of sand for $10. The grain of sand is available for collection from somewhere, doesn't matter where because nobody would bother to collect it. Your physical purchase comes with free access to digital content.

This wouldn't work, unless you actually have some legitimate way to obtain the grain of sand.

So Patreon would have to actually staff a location somewhere that distributes the sand.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#242

Post by bluGill »

danShumway wrote: post #126
maccard wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's unreasonable - the user found your app through apple. Imagine if I sold tools, and I hung out in Home Depot next to our tools display telling people "hey, if you buy them directly from me, you can save 30%" I can't see that lasting very long.

When was the last time you bought any large item from a physical store that didn't come with advertisements in the packaging for direct services? If you buy a Disney DVD from Walmart, there will be advertisements inside the DVD case for direct services (heck, last time I checked there were ads on the outside of the case). If you buy a Roomba from Walmart, there will be advertisements for direct parts and addons from…

Looks close - those services are typically not the same as what you can get at Walmart. You can get parts, but often the device itself isn't sold (instead they list places you can buy). Or if you can buy direct it is cheaper from Walmart. Walmart is a large enough customer that they won't let you sell it for less (either you don't undercut Walmart, or you will sell zero at Walmart).

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#244

Post by Kwpolska »

voiceblue wrote: post #116
balozi wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patreon also stands to gain from this change. Come think of it, the new arrangement is a win for everyone involved - except the actual patrons ofcourse.

Is there any evidence that Apple has actually made this "threat"? I'm not seeing anything other than what Patreon has claimed (and it seems that they are only recently going to begin to allow iOS purchases, which might mean they are bringing this upon themselves). I am suspicious, because the specific change to per-creation billing is overwhelmingly positive for Patreon (and, as you pointed out, not for its users), f…

Apple has been on a crusade against all payments not going through them for many years. I absolutely believe this is Apple’s fault, although I would have expected this to have happened much sooner.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#245

Post by inetknght »

bkraz wrote: post #80

As a longtime YouTube creator who uses Patreon for financial support, the news is terrible: Patreon informed me that all creators must switch to a monthly subscription schedule instead of the per-creation schedule that I and many other currently use. The whole point of per-creation is that it allows me to take time off, and only charge people when I release something, thus incentivizing me, and being fair to my suppo…

> As a longtime YouTube creator who uses Patreon for financial support

How long until YouTube (Google) demand "their" cut of your Patreon income? What will you do then?

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#246

Post by gjsman-1000 »

Longhanks wrote: post #231
karaterobot wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I think Steve Jobs was a super nice guy, but he clearly cared about Apple's brand, including the part of about users and developers not thinking of them rapacious and hostile, which is sort of how I (and many others) view their pricing model today. I like to think he'd have seen how bad this choice has played out for Apple's brand and changed his position by now, if he were still around.

You mean the guy that literally had to be fired from his very own company because he refused to change course, the guy that most probably died earlier than necessary because he did not change his stance on pharmaceutical medicine? I believe he would very much love the current Apple Tax system and would eagerly fight the EU in court for this, both out of spite and out of arrogance for "his" Apple.

> You mean the guy that literally had to be fired from his very own company because he refused to change course

Kind of a ridiculous complaint because we all know what happened to the company afterwards. He was more right than they were.

> guy that most probably died earlier than necessary because he did not change his stance on pharmaceutical medicine

Hilariously irrelevant.

> both out of spite and out of arrogance for "his" Apple

I don't see it. He cared about developers - the 30% rate, when he introduced it, was better than any other rate in the industry and was seen as a screaming deal. Before he died, it would have been unfair for Amazon to be getting around the rate while small developers had to pay it. Nobody, in 2011, was calling the rate exorbitant. At the time, your competition (publishing on PC) basically required calling a publisher and agreeing to a 50%-60% fee. Same for Verizon and "dumb" phones - every carrier had their own app store and they all charged 50% or more.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#247

Post by abudimir »

Arainach wrote: post #219
InsomniacL wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does apple allow that? I think there are rules about telling people not to use IOS method. Not sure if that would extend to content displayed in the app too from creators?

Take Apple out of the loop entirely. Why does Patreon need an app? Have users go through the website. Send them updates when people post new content. I've never used the Patreon app on either Android or iOS. I support a number of creators and I have no idea why I'd want an app. Money is taken from my account. Receipts are sent to my email. Articles from creators are sent to my email, and if they're long enough I clic…

Exactly what I do, subscribe through the web. Don't need another app on the phone. Subscribe and forget.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#248

Post by dannyobrien »

bkraz wrote: post #80

As a longtime YouTube creator who uses Patreon for financial support, the news is terrible: Patreon informed me that all creators must switch to a monthly subscription schedule instead of the per-creation schedule that I and many other currently use. The whole point of per-creation is that it allows me to take time off, and only charge people when I release something, thus incentivizing me, and being fair to my suppo…

I don't understand why Patreon has to drop the per-creation model. Can they not just not offer that on iOS, and continue it on other platforms? (Perhaps with a "convert from susbcription to per-creation" feature online?)

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#249

Post by AlexandrB »

bkraz wrote: post #80

As a longtime YouTube creator who uses Patreon for financial support, the news is terrible: Patreon informed me that all creators must switch to a monthly subscription schedule instead of the per-creation schedule that I and many other currently use. The whole point of per-creation is that it allows me to take time off, and only charge people when I release something, thus incentivizing me, and being fair to my suppo…

Apple has quietly been one of the biggest culprits in the proliferation of subscription software. They still don't support upgrades/upgrade pricing. Subscriptions are also the easiest way to implement a software demo or trial in the App Store. Finally they use their control of the App Store to coerce anyone doing something different than monthly/yearly subscriptions into that model (as we see here).

It sucks big time.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#250

Post by FredPret »

add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #139
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> can't understand why people think that inviting new middlemen into their transactions is acceptable Same reason people use credit cards or Gmail or hell Patreon. It reduces the number of counterparties you have to deal with and trust.

That attitude made sense when Google was trustworthy, I guess.

It's not a Google-specific attitude - it's the value proposition of all middlemen everywhere.

Facilitation of transactions and assuming the risk.

It's worth it to many. I gladly pay Apple the extra 30% or whatever because it adds up to <$10 per month for me and I don't have to jump through hoops to cancel subs.

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