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On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

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Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#241

Post by kalleboo »

shapefrog wrote: post #233
Hamuko wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that the person in this scenario ever actually lived in the US. You can get an American citizenship without ever actually living there, which will then just make your life harder and if you want to make your life easier, that'll be $2350.

They walk the earth under the protection of the US government. Anywhere anytime they need it, uncle sam will save them, or bomb the shit out of anyone that dares harms them. A very cheap lifetime insurance policy for $2350. Civis romanus sum

This is a myth. It is not true. There are many cases where the US has deemed it not worth it to rescue a handful of citizens.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#242

Post by kalleboo »

dd_roger wrote: post #171

Honestly I find it pretty fucked up that someone would renounce their citizenship "for convenience". I can't really comprehend how their country could mean so little to someone, especially when that country is a democracy. Regarding the taxation when living abroad, doesn't it actually make sense? Sure it sounds like an oddity because the US are the only to do it, but most emigrants I know still use the consular servi…

> I can't really comprehend how their country could mean so little to someone, especially when that country is a democracy.

Maybe that's what happens when someone means so little to their country?

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#243

Post by Linosaurus »

xunn0026 wrote: post #230
pgreenwood wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can leave at will if you're not an Australian citizen or a permanent resident. If you are, then you currently need an exemption, e.g for work or business, or you're going to live in another country.

Does this seem... reasonable? Citizens aren't allowed to leave unless they have 'compelling reasons' and provide evidence. People used to escape communism for such reasons.

It probably cuts down on the number of citizens who wish to enter from covid land.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#244

Post by PKop »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #203
PKop wrote: post #118

Why is there an assumption that citizenship should extend to people living outside of a country as citizens of another country? There's a lot of complaints here about annoying and costly taxation of "expats" but there's no discussion of why it should be valid to have citizenship but not reside in that country's borders? What is citizenship for except to actually be a citizen? And what does that mean, living in anothe…

By your logic citizenship should then be granted to anyone deciding to go live in another country. Either that or country should prevent immigrants from moving there. There are people who, during their lifetime, live on different countries. So according to you someone who lives in four countries should change nationality three times? > I think it's even perfectly valid for nations to ban dual citizenship itself. Some…

>By your logic citizenship should then be granted to anyone deciding to go live in another country. Either that or country should prevent immigrants from moving there.

Of course it makes sense for countries to restrict who they want to come in, and no I don't think my logic dictates that citizenship should be granted to anyone just because they want to come in.

I'm describing people who have "rejected" being a citizen of a country by virtue of leaving, living in another place and working for the economy and community outside of the nation who they were a citizen of before.

I'm saying that being a citizen has value and so it should come with a cost, or it should be given up (or taken away). And that this shouldn't be very controversial. Certainly if you left an organization and worked for someone else you wouldn't be considered part of the old company? Or if you were on a sports team and left to another, same thing. It is up to each organization to determine the standards by which they assess granting membership.... leaving the org is certainly an legitimate criteria for revoking it.

>The evil free individual, how dared she abandon the nation state?

In and of itself I don't think it's that big of a deal, what I'm saying is, from the perspective of the home nation and its people... the citizens who didn't leave, why would it make any sense for them to cater to the people that left? To worry about their every whim and desire? They left. A nation and its people are those who are there and working to contribute to it and make it stronger. This is such common sense I don't understand the mindset who would think otherwise.

The crux of the argument here comes down to this: OF COURSE from the perspective of individuals moving all over the world, they want absolute freedom, to do whatever they want, to go wherever they want, to have all the rights and priviliges of all the places they can possibly get with no costs. But this has nothing to do with what is best and desirable for a nation itself. What is best for the nation as a whole, including the people that actually live there, doesn't always match up with what people roaming all over the world want. And so the interests of people actually living in a place are no less valid nor do they matter less (I think they matter more, actually) than the interests of people that don't live in a place.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#245

Post by sfblah »

wmitty wrote: post #204
sfblah wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: How did they even find you? Did they seriously do a dragnet of all birth certificates and send you a letter in Canada or something?

They tell all the Canadian banks and financial institutions that they have to ask all customers whether they are US citizens (and you lose account access if you won't answer). The Canadian banks then have to report all the accounts of US citizens to the US gov. The banks comply with all this because otherwise they get super nasty fines against their us operations. Also: they tell you that if you come in under the amn…

Wow. My initial thought was just to lie. But given what you said I’m not sure what the right approach would be. What a terrible situation.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#246

Post by newnamenewface »

us-personality wrote: post #170

I registered this account to make this post in the hope that it helps readers of HN and others. Under U.S. law, citizenship and nationality are two different things. The common refrain, well-established and reified by no less a body than the Supreme Court, is, "All citizens are nationals, but not all nationals are citizens." In other words, the set of U.S. citizens is a subset of the set of U.S. nationals. (The set o…

Makes me think that your best bet is to find a lawyer with this domain knowledge or (more craftfully) become a lawyer with this knowledge and charge ann exorbitant but less than double tax fee to consult others how to achieve this.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#247

Post by shapefrog »

kalleboo wrote: post #241
shapefrog wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They walk the earth under the protection of the US government. Anywhere anytime they need it, uncle sam will save them, or bomb the shit out of anyone that dares harms them. A very cheap lifetime insurance policy for $2350. Civis romanus sum

This is a myth. It is not true. There are many cases where the US has deemed it not worth it to rescue a handful of citizens.

>There are many cases where the US has deemed it not worth it

And there are many cases where they have. This guy certainly got his $2,000 worth when Seal Team 6 swooped in, killed a bunch of people and rescued him. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-electio...

Trump administration had over the years rescued 55 hostages in 24 countries. Their only qualification of rescue, being american citizens.

> This is a myth. It is not true.

Thus it is true, and it is not a myth.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#248

Post by nickthemagicman »

callahad wrote: post #163
nickthemagicman wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s clear from your response that you’re not at all familiar with the issues here Im NOT! I'm trying to understand it. It appears that she's giving up her citizenship so she doesn't have to use a VPN and has a better selection of banks and to avoid paying $1000 a year? Seems like a citizenship is worth WAY more than that! Something doesn't add up here! Or do people with a lot of money just have a lot less toleranc…

It genuinely is far more invasive and frustrating than you'd expect. I'm a dual US/UK citizen, living in the UK for four years. I have been turned away from local banks for being American. I have also had American banks and brokerages unilaterally terminate my prior accounts for moving abroad. I cannot reasonably purchase local life insurance policies nor mutual funds without tripping over IRS regulations that strip…

Thanks. This explains it a little, but still seems like a huge gamble to give up one's citizen ship to the largest superpower in the world.

I'd rather just use a VPN and lie to get around the bullshit if possible.

You're literally not doing anything wrong by wanting to keep the money you have to support yourself and your family... the laws are just stupid and extremely unfair.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#249

Post by BigRedDog1669 »

shapefrog wrote: post #247
kalleboo wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a myth. It is not true. There are many cases where the US has deemed it not worth it to rescue a handful of citizens.

>There are many cases where the US has deemed it not worth it And there are many cases where they have. This guy certainly got his $2,000 worth when Seal Team 6 swooped in, killed a bunch of people and rescued him. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-electio... Trump administration had over the years rescued 55 hostages in 24 countries. Their only qualification of rescue, being american citizens. > T…

They were implying it is a myth that the US gov WILL decide to help you, not MIGHT decide to help you. A lottery ticket is not an insurance policy.

Re: On Receiving my Certificate of Loss of Nationality

#250

Post by curryst »

digbybk wrote: post #240
jkepler wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. A passport says what country must take you when other places decide to deport you or refuse you entry.

You may be missing my point. If no one believes in the country’s existence, including the people who live in the land that the country is purported to encompass, then it doesn’t exist. Nations aren’t tangible physical objects. They exist in the collective human imagination. Yes. Your passport is just a notebook if no one believes in the country it is supposed to be for.

Sealand would be of note here. This is basically that exact scenario. Dude buys an old oil platform, calls it a country and issues a bunch of passports. Debates abound over whether they should be accepted or not.
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