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Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

nation.co.ke

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Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#241

Post by forapurpose »

dang wrote: post #235
forapurpose wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, if someone mentions propaganda then one can expect something like the parent comment with the exact same arguments to appear. > This seems as if its pointed at me. It's not; it's not pointed at anyone, as I stated, and I had no idea of your existence until now. Please don't put words in my mouth. > I do encourage you though to try to understand You have no idea what I understand or don't understand,…

Now you've crossed into outright incivility. Please stop.

I wanted to edit it, as I said in my other comment, but I can't seem to do it now. Perhaps because it's flagged? If you see this and can delete it, that's fine with me.

For the record, I don't think slightly sharp language defending myself against unfounded accusations is "outright incivility", but it's not worth discussing. Whether or not I agree, it seems more constructive to just delete it.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#242

Post by dang »

forapurpose wrote: post #241
dang wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you've crossed into outright incivility. Please stop.

I wanted to edit it, as I said in my other comment, but I can't seem to do it now. Perhaps because it's flagged? If you see this and can delete it, that's fine with me. For the record, I don't think slightly sharp language defending myself against unfounded accusations is "outright incivility", but it's not worth discussing. Whether or not I agree, it seems more constructive to just delete it.

OK, I've killed that comment and will kill the replies.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#243

Post by paraditedc »

SuperNinKenDo wrote: post #229
paraditedc wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's because it's very clear that China's intent with such loans is to create a casus belli for such seizures or create complete economic reliance. Do you have actual evidence that this was the intention?

Let me know what evidence a 50 center would accept. Everyone else is convinced, so it's only you I would be working to sway.

1. I don't appreciate being called 50 center.

2. Any evidence will do, as long as it comes from a reputable source. You get to decide what constitutes a "reputable source".

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#247

Post by inthegreenwoods »

dang wrote: post #209
chapium wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is another article as well: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nation.co.ke/news/Chinese-m...

Since that article seems both more informative and more neutral (for example, it says "China may" while the other article says "China to"), we switched to it from https://www.africanstand.com/news/africa/east-africa/china-t... . Also, this one is still up and that one isn't. Thanks!

The link led me directly to a fake flash upgrade which attempted to load malware.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#248

Post by forapurpose »

kolikotime wrote: post #225
forapurpose wrote: post #217

The amount of propaganda is damaging my experience here. Not unlike Facebook and other platforms, HN seems to resist discussing how its platform is being abused and how it damages user experience; users are forbidden from discussing it publicly (in fact, I hope this comment is on the ok side of the guidelines, as I'm not accusing anyone in particular). I'm confident that HN works on the issue, so perhaps my difficult…

This seems as if its pointed at me. I will say that I find it sad that modern discourse has reached such a sad state that we suspect everyone who has a nonconformist opinion of being a bot/robot/astroturfer. All I will say is that I am no lover of China. Chinese civilization, like Western civilization has exhibited anti-black tendencies and attitudes. The Chinese are great lovers of African markets, but not African p…

It was not pointed at you or at anyone; it was a comment about my general experience as an HN user. I didn't realize that your account existed before you replied. My motives and knowledge, including about Africa (a word I personally wouldn't use for a very large and diverse area), are not what you assume; please don't attribute things to me.

FWIW, Western analysts have talked about the problems of Sub-Saharan African infrastructure extensively and for a long time, and the West has attempted to fund it. IIRC, generally it has been found that foreign-built and -funded infrastructure projects fail, due to problems like corruption, rule of law issues, lack of involvement by local communities, lack of understanding by foreign funders, and lack of capacity for maintenance. As an analogy, you can't just drop an infrastructure project on a country any more than you can just drop an ERP system on a company; the company has to be ready, have capabilities, and needs a lot of highly effective consulting if you want a chance of success. The West's prior attempts at funding led to a massive 'debt trap' for many poor countries, making debt relief a major priority (and one that was resolved to a large extent). As I understand it, the predominant view now is that developing local capabilities, including building institutions and functioning government, is a necessary precursor to things like infrastructure. Kenya's problem with the port, on its surface, would seem to be a repeat of the old development pitfalls.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#249

Post by dang »

mtw wrote: post #56

The title is false; nowhere in the article says that Kenya is unable to pay loan payments. It merely states that there's a contract clause that says China might take over Mombasa port if payments are not due. Kenya is not Sri Lanka, it's a wealthier country. They will find a way to pay back the payment. What can be discussed is if it was the right decision to build a high speed train. A much better decision would be…

(The title and link above have since been changed, as explained at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18763692.)

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#250

Post by [deleted] »

dang wrote: post #209
chapium wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is another article as well: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nation.co.ke/news/Chinese-m...

Since that article seems both more informative and more neutral (for example, it says "China may" while the other article says "China to"), we switched to it from https://www.africanstand.com/news/africa/east-africa/china-t... . Also, this one is still up and that one isn't. Thanks!

[deleted]
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