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Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

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Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#51

Okay that's enough China bashing threads. On the positive side, China has in the past waived some debts of African countries, which don't get to top of HN. https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-xi-pledges-60-billion-to...

Well... https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-16/are-china-cheap-loans... ... not sure what 'bashing' you are talking about. This 'debt-trap diplomacy' is a real concern here in Australia.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

rich loan to poor to get richer. this is new to you? you think china is the first or the last to do this? IMF is doing this wherever they can. the west is annoyed china is doing this too so they push all these "amg china is evil" articles to stir the pot and try to turn the locals against chinese.

I'm not sure comparing China with the IMF will help your case; at least in my Western European country, the IMF is itself considered evil by many.

Much easier to blame the IMF than the fact that if you want to spend more than you take in in taxes you’re going to have inflation and currency depreciation unless you have capital controls. Also, the IMF doesn’t really lend large amounts of money to countries that can access global capital markets generally. Non-concessional lending is mostly for when no one will lend your country money because you’re not expected to be able to repay. Concessional lending is interest free so I struggle to see how they’re supposed to make money on that.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#53

Before we throw about the term "Imperialism", let's remember what kinds of things the European powers did that are rightly considered part of it: - Violently forcing "trade" to happen, often under an "East India Company". You can have cannon balls or opium. - Forcing the local administration to learn the language and legal system of the imperial power. Why do they speak English in Kenya? - Suppressing local rule. How…

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Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#54
post #49

I see these stories popping up every now and then usually from debatable sources and people continue to believe them because they fit "the suspected plot" even when concerned parties deny them. I hate to sound like that conspiracy guy but could it just be that some people are not happy with China getting into partnerships with African countries? Edit: typo

An acquaintance travels around Africa relatively frequently and his observations seem to be in line with the OP article sentiment. From China’s perspective it makes a lot of sense to buy up Africa, it’s a resource rich continent and was essentially given up by the west.

I grew up in Africa myself. And yes, China is getting more involved in more projects than it used to but it's only because their terms are more favorable than our darling western powers'. African countries are not some teenager girl who is being duped into doing something they don't see themselves.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#55

If I think "why would China go to Africa instead of poor areas of China?" my first thought is "what they're doing in Africa doesn't help Africa".

Honestly, it's probably because this port has a higher projected ROI than some poor area of China.

You radically overestimate the competence of the Chinese government. The BRI is a white elephant, a foreign policy initiative with Xi’s imprimatur. It’s more important to be doing BRI things than that they make money.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#56
The title is false; nowhere in the article says that Kenya is unable to pay loan payments. It merely states that there's a contract clause that says China might take over Mombasa port if payments are not due.

Kenya is not Sri Lanka, it's a wealthier country. They will find a way to pay back the payment. What can be discussed is if it was the right decision to build a high speed train. A much better decision would be to stick upgrading the road network.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#57
Adding more breadth to AfricanStand

It's still controversial. KBC (state media) has an article[1] disproving the claim. The Standard (one of 2 major local news) has an article[2] exploring alleged papers from the Attorney General's Office that specify Kenya's port income as collateral. The papers were exposed by John Githongo[3], a politician who has tendencies of uncovering government misdeeds. He was in exile a while back...

[1] http://www.kbc.co.ke/chinese-govt-dismisses-report-of-mombas...

[2] https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/2001306837/does-keny...

[3] https://twitter.com/johngithongo/status/1075187915875971072

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#59

Before we throw about the term "Imperialism", let's remember what kinds of things the European powers did that are rightly considered part of it: - Violently forcing "trade" to happen, often under an "East India Company". You can have cannon balls or opium. - Forcing the local administration to learn the language and legal system of the imperial power. Why do they speak English in Kenya? - Suppressing local rule. How…

This just feels like whataboutism, no one denies that the European imperialism was bad.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#60
post #36

I know nothing about it, but comments to that article (in Google Cache) seems to view the article as alarmist: for example, say that the grace period is until 2023, so we are talking years, not weeks before something happens. No idea if it is true or not, more info/references would be great. Can someone give more insight?

I'm an African myself, but while Chinese model is different from the aid model we are familiar with, it's helping solve so many problems that we had no alternatives for. China is willing to come in with loans without political strings attached. Yes, there are collaterals but Africa has its own negotiators too, and we know the deal we get is much better than any other country or institution would be willing to give.
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