Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

nation.co.ke

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 266 posts

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#231

Post by forapurpose »

kolikotime wrote: post #225
forapurpose wrote: post #217

The amount of propaganda is damaging my experience here. Not unlike Facebook and other platforms, HN seems to resist discussing how its platform is being abused and how it damages user experience; users are forbidden from discussing it publicly (in fact, I hope this comment is on the ok side of the guidelines, as I'm not accusing anyone in particular). I'm confident that HN works on the issue, so perhaps my difficult…

This seems as if its pointed at me. I will say that I find it sad that modern discourse has reached such a sad state that we suspect everyone who has a nonconformist opinion of being a bot/robot/astroturfer. All I will say is that I am no lover of China. Chinese civilization, like Western civilization has exhibited anti-black tendencies and attitudes. The Chinese are great lovers of African markets, but not African p…

In my experience, if someone mentions propaganda then one can expect something like the parent comment with the exact same arguments to appear.

> This seems as if its pointed at me.

It's not; it's not pointed at anyone, as I stated, and I had no idea of your existence until now. Please don't put words in my mouth.

> I do encourage you though to try to understand

You have no idea what I understand or don't understand, where I'm from, or anything else about me; keep your unfounded accusations to yourself. We're here to talk about ideas, not each other, and you don't know anything about me regardless.

> we suspect everyone who has a nonconformist opinion of being a bot/robot/astroturfer.

Looking at this discussion, your opinion seems to agree with the majority, so this well-worn complaint doesn't apply at all.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#232

Post by [deleted] »

forapurpose wrote: post #217

The amount of propaganda is damaging my experience here. Not unlike Facebook and other platforms, HN seems to resist discussing how its platform is being abused and how it damages user experience; users are forbidden from discussing it publicly (in fact, I hope this comment is on the ok side of the guidelines, as I'm not accusing anyone in particular). I'm confident that HN works on the issue, so perhaps my difficult…

[deleted]

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#233

Post by [deleted] »

forapurpose wrote: post #217

The amount of propaganda is damaging my experience here. Not unlike Facebook and other platforms, HN seems to resist discussing how its platform is being abused and how it damages user experience; users are forbidden from discussing it publicly (in fact, I hope this comment is on the ok side of the guidelines, as I'm not accusing anyone in particular). I'm confident that HN works on the issue, so perhaps my difficult…

[deleted]

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#234

Post by dang »

forapurpose wrote: post #217

The amount of propaganda is damaging my experience here. Not unlike Facebook and other platforms, HN seems to resist discussing how its platform is being abused and how it damages user experience; users are forbidden from discussing it publicly (in fact, I hope this comment is on the ok side of the guidelines, as I'm not accusing anyone in particular). I'm confident that HN works on the issue, so perhaps my difficult…

No, this is not on the "ok side of the guidelines"—it's a gross violation. They say, and for good reason: "Please don't impute astroturfing or shillage. That degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about it, email us and we'll look at the data." (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) You did just the opposite. We've warned you about this before. We ban accounts that keep breaking the site guidelines, and if you keep doing this we will ban you.

No one is resisting discussion of abuse. We work against the abuse of Hacker News every day. When people raise concerns we look into it every time. The problem here is that you're inventing it out of whole cloth. What is the evidence? Some "pro-China comments" that "sound reasonable"? Someone expressing views you don't like is not evidence. People here have a wide range of backgrounds and therefore views.

In one sentence you project astroturfers out of purest imagination, and in the next are already talking about them as if they've been substantiated. That's the cheapest of internet cheap shots, it's poison to the community, and you can't post like this here.

General remark:

In the last few months this class of posts has migrated from "You're a Russian spy" and "how much did Putin pay you to post that" to "You're a Chinese shill". It's obviously the same phenomenon, and the fact that it swings so dramatically with political fashion already shows that this phenomenon is not factual, but mass-psychological.

There's an internet law that the probability of users accusing someone of astroturfing rises with the intensity with which they disagree with their view. I hope someone comes up with a pithy formulation and snappy name for it. Anyone?

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18762617 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#235

Post by dang »

forapurpose wrote: post #231
kolikotime wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems as if its pointed at me. I will say that I find it sad that modern discourse has reached such a sad state that we suspect everyone who has a nonconformist opinion of being a bot/robot/astroturfer. All I will say is that I am no lover of China. Chinese civilization, like Western civilization has exhibited anti-black tendencies and attitudes. The Chinese are great lovers of African markets, but not African p…

In my experience, if someone mentions propaganda then one can expect something like the parent comment with the exact same arguments to appear. > This seems as if its pointed at me. It's not; it's not pointed at anyone, as I stated, and I had no idea of your existence until now. Please don't put words in my mouth. > I do encourage you though to try to understand You have no idea what I understand or don't understand,…

Now you've crossed into outright incivility. Please stop.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#236

Post by forapurpose »

dang wrote: post #234
forapurpose wrote: post #217

The amount of propaganda is damaging my experience here. Not unlike Facebook and other platforms, HN seems to resist discussing how its platform is being abused and how it damages user experience; users are forbidden from discussing it publicly (in fact, I hope this comment is on the ok side of the guidelines, as I'm not accusing anyone in particular). I'm confident that HN works on the issue, so perhaps my difficult…

No, this is not on the "ok side of the guidelines"—it's a gross violation. They say, and for good reason: " Please don't impute astroturfing or shillage. That degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about it, email us and we'll look at the data. " ( https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ) You did just the opposite. We've warned you about this before. We ban accounts that keep breakin…

> In the last few months this class of posts have all migrated from "You're a Russian spy" and "how much did Putin pay you to post that" to "You're a Chinese shill".

You are confusing me with someone else. I posted none of those things.

> We've warned you about this before.

I don't think so, but maybe a long time ago. Again, I think you're confusing me with another user.

You mischaracterize my comment in many ways; specifically, I didn't ask you to address astroturfing in this discussion, but instead was making a point about my user experience; I wouldn't have a reason to follow the guideline about emailing you as I understood it (though I'm not an HN lawyer and don't want to be one). But more than that, I spoke politely and tried to address problems I have as a user, and tried to avoid violating any guidelines by not accusing anyone. I don't think I deserve attacks and unfounded personal accusations about my motivations introduced into my day; I don't see how the latter is ever appropriate or necessary. Just say, 'that's not allowed here, here is why, please don't do it.' If I make a mistake, I'll apologize and try not to do it again.

Happy holidays.

P.S. I'll edit my other recent comment, which in this context might be inflammatory.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#237

Post by dang »

forapurpose wrote: post #236
dang wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is not on the "ok side of the guidelines"—it's a gross violation. They say, and for good reason: " Please don't impute astroturfing or shillage. That degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about it, email us and we'll look at the data. " ( https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ) You did just the opposite. We've warned you about this before. We ban accounts that keep breakin…

> In the last few months this class of posts have all migrated from "You're a Russian spy" and "how much did Putin pay you to post that" to "You're a Chinese shill". You are confusing me with someone else. I posted none of those things. > We've warned you about this before. I don't think so, but maybe a long time ago. Again, I think you're confusing me with another user. You mischaracterize my comment in many ways; s…

That sentence is a general observation about a large class of posts to HN and how they have been changing lately. I didn't mean you wrote all of them. To make that clearer, I've taken out the word "all" out and added "general remark" above.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#238

Post by shawn »

forapurpose wrote: post #236
dang wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is not on the "ok side of the guidelines"—it's a gross violation. They say, and for good reason: " Please don't impute astroturfing or shillage. That degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about it, email us and we'll look at the data. " ( https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ) You did just the opposite. We've warned you about this before. We ban accounts that keep breakin…

> In the last few months this class of posts have all migrated from "You're a Russian spy" and "how much did Putin pay you to post that" to "You're a Chinese shill". You are confusing me with someone else. I posted none of those things. > We've warned you about this before. I don't think so, but maybe a long time ago. Again, I think you're confusing me with another user. You mischaracterize my comment in many ways; s…

You are confusing me with someone else. I posted none of those things.

> We've warned you about this before.

I don't think so, but maybe a long time ago. Again, I think you're confusing me with another user.

He does that, yes. It’s not just you.

If you’re looking for a platform where the inner workings are transparent, check my comment history. I think you raise some important points and that it’s a matter of time before it comes to a head.

The audience is small right now, but it’s there.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#239

Post by forapurpose »

dang wrote: post #237
forapurpose wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the last few months this class of posts have all migrated from "You're a Russian spy" and "how much did Putin pay you to post that" to "You're a Chinese shill". You are confusing me with someone else. I posted none of those things. > We've warned you about this before. I don't think so, but maybe a long time ago. Again, I think you're confusing me with another user. You mischaracterize my comment in many ways; s…

That sentence is a general observation about a large class of posts to HN and how they have been changing lately. I didn't mean you wrote all of them. To make that clearer, I've taken out the word "all" out and added "general remark" above.

Thanks. I still think you're thinking of someone else; please see my edit.

To be clear, I also think those remarks (accusing people of being shills) are a problem; I didn't think I made one, though I'll stay even further away from them.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#240

Post by justicezyx »

buboard wrote: post #111
raverbashing wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think when compared with Chinese imperialism, people will miss the US

I think people are overstating the chinese capacity to run a world-class imperialist project. China still has a long way to go to making their own country functional before they can do this kind of outreach

Funny how China has basically ruled east Asia and people still think China does not know how to run other countries as subsidiaries.

Oh, maybe it's because the leading western country only has 200+ years of history and has no idea how bit China was...

Post reply on HN