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Why Europe Is Warning of Pax Americana's End

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Re: Why Europe Is Warning of Pax Americana's End

#241

Post by Elrac »

DarkKomunalec wrote: post #199
bad_user wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would call it stupidity, because the biggest threat to jobs is provably automation and not immigrants. Immigrants are occupying either the low end jobs that nobody wants, like what you get in agriculture (e.g. strawberry pickers - if you don't know how that's like, try it out ;-)), cleaning services, etc, or they are occupying the high end jobs, like what you get in Silicon Valley, an industry that creates jobs, or…

You get automation either way - immigration only buys you ten or so years before the costs fall below even immigrant wages, after which you're left with unemployed immigrants. And lets not pretend the availability of cheap labour has nothing to do with jobs being low-end. Medical doctors sure is a funny example to give however - the USA has a lot of immigrants - how well has that worked in keeping healthcare affordab…

Immigration is keeping health care affordable in Germany and probably a bunch of other European countries. Until the Brexit, cheap foreign labor helped keep prices low in the UK.

The USA don't have a problem with immigrants - they have a problem with the runaway corruption of their political leaders. Corporate lobbyists get to write laws for representatives to rubber stamp. The reason the same drugs cost 5x more in the US than in Canada has nothing to do with immigrants.

Re: Why Europe Is Warning of Pax Americana's End

#242

Post by pmcollins »

monkmartinez wrote: post #161
zzleeper wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait wait.. Russia plainly invaded two of its neighbors, and annexes part of them. Is that just "behaving badly" in your book?

Don't forget about US proxy invasions and the global drone program... and so on, and so on... I am not defending the Russians, but at least they have the audacity to be upfront about it.

The only recent proxy invasion that I know about was Russia's invasion of eastern Ukraine where the invasion was Russian but none of the combatants bore Russian insignia. What are you referring to when you say US proxy invasions? Iraq and Afghanistan were direct invasions.

Re: Why Europe Is Warning of Pax Americana's End

#243

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

mcguire wrote: post #237
MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that is a report that is sponsored by Thyssen Krupp or by Kraus Maffei (or by both of them) - they want to push their products because the largest arms shop will dominate an integrated commands procurement process. Why is this report bullshit? Because Europe and Russia are interdependent: Europe stops buying Russian gas - Gazprom and the Russian state by extension are toast; Europe stops buying - everything t…

"Trade prevents war" was everyone's diplomatic policy for a while. Until WWI.

before WWII the powers had conflicting colonial ambitions, now its a post colonial world, so what matters is access to resources (these you can again buy with money, but the fight is over conditions and price).

I think there were several transitions that made the world a more civil place: one was the realization that free labor is better than forced /slave labor, the other one that you can do without colonies. (There was also the axial age, but that was along time ago)

Re: Why Europe Is Warning of Pax Americana's End

#244

Post by khana »

VLM wrote: post #204
wavefunction wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are defending the Russians to a slight extent by bringing up the misdeeds of the US. Two wrongs do not make a right. American here.

With all due respect you're confusing diplomacy with morality. The question isn't if Socrates would find the behavior pleasingly moral, but if pragmatically at least one country has been invading random 3rd world countries on the other side of the planet for decades without the world collapsing into WW3 then what is the likely outcome of a much more minor ... international misbehavior. Therefore a country "invading"…

Nailed it!

Re: Why Europe Is Warning of Pax Americana's End

#245

Post by seppin »

monkmartinez wrote: post #161
zzleeper wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait wait.. Russia plainly invaded two of its neighbors, and annexes part of them. Is that just "behaving badly" in your book?

Don't forget about US proxy invasions and the global drone program... and so on, and so on... I am not defending the Russians, but at least they have the audacity to be upfront about it.

> Don't forget about US proxy invasions and the global drone program... and so on, and so on...

One occupies and annexes land, the other plays war games and regime change. If you are arguing that there is no difference between the two, do so.

Re: Why Europe Is Warning of Pax Americana's End

#246

Post by mcguire »

baursak wrote: post #174
Gustomaximus wrote: post #77

From the article: "It needs to move toward more military integration, which means streamlining procurement. European armies use too many different weapons systems: seventeen main battle tank families compared with just one for the U.S.; 20 types of fighter planes compared with just six; and 13 kinds of air-to-air missiles compared with three." While I dont doubt there are efficiencies to be had, I feel they fail to r…

I find it curious that it's only Europeans who are worried about Russia and their expansion threat, and the most loud about it are those who don't even have a common border with Russia. On the other hand, countries with a common border -- China, Mongolia, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, etc., are kind ho hum about the whole thing. I also feel compelled to partially quote Gore Vidal's old article on this: "When Japan surrende…

A Russian invasion of China would be an interesting strategic problem. They'd have to go through Siberia, Mongolia, or Xinjiang to get to the meaty filling.

Re: Why Europe Is Warning of Pax Americana's End

#247

Post by seppin »

nitrogen wrote: post #232
cabalamat wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And how is that different from the US intervening in "non-neighbouring" countries like Iraq or Afghanistan The USA hasn't tried to annex parts of those countries. > the UK going to war with the "neighbouring" Falkland Islands Most countries would fight a war if their territory was invaded.

The USA hasn't tried to annex parts of those countries. Do military bases count?

No, they exist under legal authority of host nation.

Re: Why Europe Is Warning of Pax Americana's End

#248

Post by mcguire »

fowlerpower wrote: post #2

This is somewhat overblown, there was a lot of talk about this as it became clear Trump was about to be elected. Yes Trump is stirring the pot a bit maybe to play Russia against China. Maybe it's to get Europe to spend a little more on NATO so the US doesn't fund the vast majority of that alliance and he can cut some spending there. Whatever the mind set is, not much has changed. The US and all of its allies are stil…

If a Russian-backed Syrian regime gets frisky against Israel again....

Re: Why Europe Is Warning of Pax Americana's End

#249

Post by throwaway729 »

wuschel wrote: post #95
jerf wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"withdrawing is not a form of strength" Umm.... wasn't that almost literally Obama's position? Haven't other countries been filling the vacuum in? Doesn't it make a lot more sense to look at Trump's election precisely as a rejection of eight years of that idea? Aren't we supposed to be very afraid of Trump being a maniac with the nuclear button and using the US military to do crazy things? Obama wasn't that long ago.…

> (...) always been at WA with Eurasia. That is an interesting formulation that reminds me former presidential advisor Zbigniew Brzeziński's book "The Grand Chessboard".

It's a quote from 1984...

Re: Why Europe Is Warning of Pax Americana's End

#250

Post by vondur »

zzleeper wrote: post #110
Gustomaximus wrote: post #77

From the article: "It needs to move toward more military integration, which means streamlining procurement. European armies use too many different weapons systems: seventeen main battle tank families compared with just one for the U.S.; 20 types of fighter planes compared with just six; and 13 kinds of air-to-air missiles compared with three." While I dont doubt there are efficiencies to be had, I feel they fail to r…

Wait wait.. Russia plainly invaded two of its neighbors, and annexes part of them. Is that just "behaving badly" in your book?

Well, we pushed NATO onto the borders of Russia. I can't imagine the US would be too happy with Russian military bases on our borders.
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