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Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

bbc.com

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Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#231

Post by mk89 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #43
enceladus06 wrote: post #8

Just build nukes if you are afraid of Russia then nuke them if they try to invade. Ukraine is not as smart and gave up its nukes in the early 90s, and is now in the middle of a war for the last couple years.

> Just build nukes I'm broadly sympathetic to the argument that the multipolar world we're in now makes a good case for nuclear weapons adoption. But Germany probably isn't the one Europe wants to arm itself. And even if it did, their Greens wouldn't allow it.

Germany already hosts nuclear weapons. And there were talks with France/UK to build the nuclear shield or something like that. It's just a matter of time before that happens, because as of today, that's the only way you can reason with dictators.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#232

Post by fkdk »

jiwidi wrote: post #148

suddenly when war comes is only mandatory for man

Including women would have been a legal nonstarter.

The german constitution restricts drafting to men[0] and would have to be changed before such a law could even be considered.

Before you ask, yes, the constitution also says that men and women need to be treated equally[1]

[0] https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gg/art_12a.html

[1] https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/gg/art_3.html

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#234

Post by nsoqm »

nicbou wrote: post #153
jasonvorhe wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wrong. I used to work in cafes when I still lived in the city and two locations where close to hospitals and everyone I talked to complained about the risk of employing people with huge language barriers (mostly Ukrainians and Syrians from what I heard) in health related jobs because it has dire consequences if something gets lost in translation. No one of the higher ups cared and they just had to deal with w…

There just isn't enough people who are local and want to do this job for this pay. This happens in Germany but also in my home country. In Germany there is a whole industry around recruiting foreign nurses. I work in immigration and a few of my colleagues specialise in that. There are websites and initiatives just for that. It will get worse. This population is aging.

And the solution to low salaries is... is increasing the supply of labour?

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#235

Post by jadamson »

akimbostrawman wrote: post #209
mystraline wrote: post #10

The article is using "voluntary" in a very questionable fashion. > Germany's parliament, the Bundestag, has voted to introduce voluntary military service... > The form will be mandatory for men and voluntary for women. > The government says military service will be voluntary for as long as possible, but from July 2027, all 18-year-old men will have to take a medical exam to assess their fitness for possible military…

>mandatory for men and voluntary for women. this is what "patriarchy" actually looks like but you sure won't see anybody on the left complain about that....

For the past decade or more, the people that drone on about male privilege were arguing conscription would never happen again so it didn't matter. They knew they were telling a lie then, they'll just come up with a new one now.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#236

Post by nsoqm »

jijijijij wrote: post #220
sunshine-o wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the military and war is like putting a society in a pressure cooker. Nothing good comes out of it. We have been told in most stories that this is a time when people come together and stand up but this is really propaganda. The reality is most people go a little bit crazy and paranoid in these situation. Understandably. For example, friendly fires have always been very much under reported. Can you imagine what…

Dude, it's kids. Their mind isn't set in stone, their opinions aren't very founded. Basic military service also includes ethical/political education. People are not getting packed into trenches yet, it's not prison. If anything, this is going to help tensions in society. They will share rooms, showers, dirt and sweat. We're all the same. Nothing has been shown more effective at tearing down prejudices than actual exp…

> We're all the same. Nothing has been shown more effective at tearing down prejudices than actual exposure and confrontation.

History is full of counter-examples.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#237

Post by nsoqm »

hkpack wrote: post #193
jasonvorhe wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I chuckled because of the s/Russia/Putin/g nonsense everywhere. I'm not laughing at anyone's expense if they forcibly lose their home, no matter where and under which circumstances.

You see, millions are already killed in the biggest war in Europe since WW2 and it looks like this is just the prelude. Russia is threatening to fight Europe as of yesterday, continue to increase weapon production and militarisation. It is obvious that it just cannot stop as its economy and social order is switching more and more to the war-time. China backs russia up and officially declaring that it cannot allow Rus…

Are you of fighting age? In other words, are you putting your life on the line, or you just think that “someone else” should die to protect you?

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#238

Post by OKRainbowKid »

akimbostrawman wrote: post #209
mystraline wrote: post #10

The article is using "voluntary" in a very questionable fashion. > Germany's parliament, the Bundestag, has voted to introduce voluntary military service... > The form will be mandatory for men and voluntary for women. > The government says military service will be voluntary for as long as possible, but from July 2027, all 18-year-old men will have to take a medical exam to assess their fitness for possible military…

>mandatory for men and voluntary for women. this is what "patriarchy" actually looks like but you sure won't see anybody on the left complain about that....

Plenty of people are complaining, and we currently have a right-wing government. Your username is quite apt.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#240

Post by KellyCriterion »

sunshine-o wrote: post #133
KellyCriterion wrote: post #112

Germanys problem is mainly not the number of recruits: The didnt invest for decades, so structures in the background to handle all those additional young recruits are no more existing. Even if they would draw just 25% of evey year, they would not be able to manage it.

> The didnt invest for decades, so structures in the background to handle all those additional young recruits are no more existing. Yes but remember that was the point. The career and trained militaries were spending most of their time schooling young people and were not focusing on capabilities. This is why most countries put an end on that nonsense. So right now you can be sure an enormous amount of personnel in th…

Clearly this country would have enough ressources to have a "professional army" like in many other countries; there are really enough peoply willingly "taking some action", also highly motivatd people would make a much better/stronger force than volounteers?
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