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EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

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Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite best efforts, there's just no way around the general notion that affecting the tide affects all boats. Of course there is. You just add a minimum scale requirement before these obligations kick in, so they only affect sites that are big enough both to cause significant problems with illegitimate uploads and to have the resources to do something reasonable about it. Laws are written like this all the time in p…

> Of course there is. You just add a minimum scale requirement before these obligations kick in, so they only affect sites that are big enough This is what I'm referencing in my last sentence, "Even attempts to target legislation tend to have an unquantifiable ripple effect beyond the foresight of naive legislators." This naive view doesn't respect the intertwining nature of businesses of all sizes that work in the i…

You are trying to make this into more than it is.

The principle that some things are too small to be concerned about is a long-standing legal tradition, hence de minimis and so on.

In my own country, the UK, many rules do not fully apply to very small businesses and various extra allowances are made financially, precisely because imposing the same rules on a five-person start-up as a 2,500-person international corporation may be disproportionate.

There is nothing at all unusual or naive about this. It's done all the time. It's just not something the EU in particular has ever been very good at understanding or dealing with. For example, by their own admission, several of the key officials involved in the VAT changes a few years ago literally did not realise that many thousands of microbusinesses that would also be covered by the new rules even existed, nor that the new rules would essential cause them to not exist any more. The new copyright regime we're talking about here is a different context but still has the same underlying problem.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#232
post #3

Policies like this make it glaringly obvious how little our government representatives around the world understand technology. It almost seems malicious, or at the very least anticompetitive. Who has access to such filtering systems already, or the resources to create one? GRPR regulations, while I absolutely realize their necessity, have made it difficult for me to expand my side business into the EU. This would jus…

Shut up with your stupid “innovation”. Your innovation is just another dumb idea. “Laws against stripmining are just another road block for innovation.” Just shut up already. Shut. Up.

Posting like this on Hacker News will get your account banned. Please don't.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#233
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. No one is entitled to free content, what's wrong with paying for Netflix/YouTube?

Netflix is already paid.. fyfy18 is talking about paying your ISP for the privilege of accessing Netflix.

I paid for my car. I still have to pay for gas on a regular basis. I still have to pay tolls on many roads and highways.

I paid for a CD once, a long time ago. I still had to pay for electricity for the stereo. And that damn greedy electric company chose to charge me more for listening to it when I wanted to. Sure, I could have played my music from midnight to 6am, to take advantage of my evil utility's lower rates at night, but I chose to listen during the day.

That utility was really evil, too. I wanted to install an electrically powered utility in my old house. It was a dryer. But they made me go out and find some third party to "prepare my electrical network" for the product I had already purchased. I had to find an electrician to come and install a 240V circuit in my house. I already pay for electricity, but they couldn't even be arsed to come fix my wiring for me.

Don't get me wrong. I love net neutrality. But I don't think my preferences should be enforced upon the entire population. I also hate fishing. I don't care for tripe. But I also don't try to enforce that preference on others.

My mother barely uses the internet at her home, but she pays the same price I do. I am a very high bandwidth user. I definitely free-ride on the average user who consumes less bandwidth. It's not fair. I should pay more. But I don't.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#234
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not even remotely true. GDPR expressly affords revoking consent—and deleting any information gathered—at any time.

No, it doesn't. In fact, the rules about what must or must not be deleted are more complicated than that and in some respects ambiguous, and as yet there is little useful guidance from regulators to clarify those ambiguities. This is a significant problem with the GDPR.

I can't edit my comment above any longer, but for the benefit of those who are downvoting:

The point is that there may be multiple lawful bases for collecting the same personal data and it may be used for multiple purposes. The fact that consent was one of those bases does not necessarily convey a right to erasure if others still apply after consent is withdrawn.

Moreover, given that one of the other lawful bases for processing is the infamous "legitimate interest" umbrella, which could cover almost anything or almost nothing depending on subjective interpretation, the whole situation is quite ambiguous.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#235
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain to me how the deletion policies work? If you ask for your data to be deleted does that include your address in my contacts? Does it include your messages to me? Does it include your posts that appeared on my feed? In the physical world all of those would be mine. Addresses: It would be my paper address book with your address written in it. Email: would paper letters you sent to me that I keep in my fi…

I think that the best way to view the deletion policy is to imagine what would happen if someone stole the data. If it is anything that could get you sued over then that is data that needed to be deleted. This will likely cover a bit more than if it was physical objects. To be fair, most physical paper address books would not include millions/billions of addresses, and would unlikely be stolen by accident. The only o…

I don't think that's correct. A business has the right to retain records that are necessary for them to do business. From the lawyer that advised us in this, his call was that Order History data doesn't need to be expurgated even though it contains the person's name and address, etc. There are any number of business reasons dictating that we need a record of this stuff (e.g., auditing for sales tax compliance; being able to handle customer returns in the future, or fraud claims from the credit card processor).

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#236
post #121
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or, simply don't use cookies for purposes other than providing the service This, or as a minimum: Don't track people who has the DNT header set.

You mean the DNT header which is set by default in browsers? Then we can simplify your proposal to: "Don't track people"

You say this as if you're thinking that tracking is a normal thing to do to your users. I'm happy GDPR is fixing such misconceptions.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No; tokyodude is asking what happens if you request that (for example) Google erases your data, and he has your email address in his Gmail contacts. Oh, well in that case this is explicitly handled in recital 18. https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-18/ > Point (b) seems to suggest that it applies by default if the basis for originally processing the data was the subject's consent... but that the controller can override…

I think part of the issue here is that a plain English reading of the GDPR implies such appalling totalitarian overreach that most people find it hard to believe that it can really be what's meant. I mean, you've just agreed with my reading that the GDPR gives me the power to reach into your personal inbox and censor your records of communications with me. That sort of power for bad actors to carry out historical rev…

That's the opposite of totalitarian, btw, if we're interested in words.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#238

So many people here compare this to GDPR... I can recommend everyone to just read the EU website on GDPR: https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/refo... they write the official website in understandable language, in plain and simple English, not in weird lawyer talk. They have examples for companies as well. What to do, how to act etc.. Forming your opinion about these laws based on what the big Amer…

I think people compare it to the GDPR based on amount of internet big-brother it imposes and other prior-restraint requirements on internet businesses. Telling someone to compare the wording is unrelated to the general concerns of oversight. The unfortunate part is that these contrarian opinions are assumed to have been formed from big American companies and people who haven't read the documents. You shouldn't so qui…

“General concern” isn’t necessarily a valid complaint, or understanding of the situation.

The GDPR gives _individuals_ power over their data. It’s not “big government oversight” (whether you think that’s good or bad).

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#239
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think part of the issue here is that a plain English reading of the GDPR implies such appalling totalitarian overreach that most people find it hard to believe that it can really be what's meant. I mean, you've just agreed with my reading that the GDPR gives me the power to reach into your personal inbox and censor your records of communications with me. That sort of power for bad actors to carry out historical rev…

That's the opposite of totalitarian, btw, if we're interested in words.

In what way is government-mandated censorship and falsification of history "the opposite of totalitarian"?

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netflix is already paid.. fyfy18 is talking about paying your ISP for the privilege of accessing Netflix.

I paid for my car. I still have to pay for gas on a regular basis. I still have to pay tolls on many roads and highways. I paid for a CD once, a long time ago. I still had to pay for electricity for the stereo. And that damn greedy electric company chose to charge me more for listening to it when I wanted to. Sure, I could have played my music from midnight to 6am, to take advantage of my evil utility's lower rates a…

I paid for a CD once, a long time ago. I still had to pay for electricity for the stereo. (...)

Irrelevant, you already pay Netflix and your ISP.

A better analogy would be: I paid for a stereo, but now I have to pay for listening to it because it's a Sony, whereas I wouldn't if it was a Philips.

My mother barely uses the internet at her home, but she pays the same price I do. I am a very high bandwidth user. I definitely free-ride on the average user who consumes less bandwidth. It's not fair. I should pay more. But I don't.

Also irrelevant, Net Neutrality doesn't in any way prevent ISPs from charging for the bandwidth you consume. If they don't, it's their decision. It only prevents them from charging more depending on where the bits go.

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