Live data from Hacker News

EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

techdirt.com

191–200 of 266 posts

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it matter what it is intended to do?

Because intent matters?

But why? People are affected by the practical application. Even if you argue that intent matters once it reaches a court or regulator, that is long past the effect.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The greatest irony is EU regulators whining about the dominance of Google, Facebook, etc, while passing regulations like this which make it impossible for anyone to compete with their ilk. Google and Facebook will have no trouble building the automated filters that are mandated by this legislation. The impact of this will be felt entirely by smaller companies with either will shut down, or, more likely, will never be…

And companies will neglect the EU market altogether. The great legal firewall of the EU. We can pass laws to make things better without any technical competence! Lets go after cryptography next!

> And companies will neglect the EU market altogether

As an EU citizen (until April, anyway), can I live in that future please?

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#193
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish browsers had a "do track" option which told every website: yes I consent, do what you want, just don't show me a popup. These cookies banners and GDPR popups have ruined the web.

So ads that follow you everywhere and inescapable email signup forms haven't done it, but "cookies banners and GDPR popups have ruined the web". Got it.

I know you are being sarcastic, but honestly yes. I'm not too bothered about being tracked and having targeted ads. It doesn't negatively affect my experience. My ad-blocker takes care of most of the ads anyway.

These intrusive popups and banners, on the other hand — especially the new post-GDPR in-your-face ones which I have to dismiss before I can even read a simple article — have ruined the user experience of the web. And my ad blocker doesn't seem to be able to block them.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That'll however require that all data uploaded with your service will have to go via such black box, so you'll essentially perform mass surveillance for them.

That's why I said box, and not service ;)

Well, ok, the definition of a "black box" pretty much dictates what it does internally is not known to you, so you can never be sure what data it does/doesn't send out.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because intent matters?

But why? People are affected by the practical application. Even if you argue that intent matters once it reaches a court or regulator, that is long past the effect.

Because when a law is pushed by corporations, aimed at individuals, you're not likely to have much recourse, as an individual targeted by such a law. The hammer is going to drop on you and that's that.

A law such as the GDPR, which is targeted at corporations primarily, is worded in such a way that no company is going to get massive fines if they seriously tried to comply, but for whatever reason failed to do so. They're going to get a dozen written warnings, guidance on complying etc. before they have to pay anything. Small businesses don't even need a data protection officer.

Why this discrepancy between laws targeting individuals vs corporations? Because corporations control the flow of capital, control a large part of our politicians, can blackmail with outsourcing etc. None of this power is usually available to an individual.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#196
So many people here compare this to GDPR...

I can recommend everyone to just read the EU website on GDPR: https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/refo...

they write the official website in understandable language, in plain and simple English, not in weird lawyer talk. They have examples for companies as well. What to do, how to act etc..

Forming your opinion about these laws based on what the big American data companies tell you about it is about the same as asking tobacco companies what they think about health laws.

It really isn't that hard to just take 30 minutes and read the website from the EU. Literally every comment here talking about 'stupid old lawmakers that don't understand the internet' has not even read the bloody document. I've seen Youtube comment sectioned that were better informed than HN about this.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is GDPR a problem at all? Is it so hard to avoid personalized tracking of unregistered users, ask users for their consent at sign-up time and implement a button for them to export and delete their data?

Avoiding personalized tracking of unregistered users means you can't use Google Analytics or something equivalent. Not that it's impossible per se, but these tools have a strong added value, so...

> but these tools have a strong added value, so...

Strong added value to who? If Google Analytics disappeared tomorrow do you think the average internet user would be at all impacted?

Remember, GDPR is about protecting the user.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#198
post #3

Policies like this make it glaringly obvious how little our government representatives around the world understand technology. It almost seems malicious, or at the very least anticompetitive. Who has access to such filtering systems already, or the resources to create one? GRPR regulations, while I absolutely realize their necessity, have made it difficult for me to expand my side business into the EU. This would jus…

What part of the GDPR makes things difficult for your side business? Every discussion I run into has people claiming this sorta thing, but my reading of the text make it fairly clear that for 90% of non-despicable use cases there's really not that much of a problem...

My "despicable" side business is (was) making Android apps with Admob ads. I needed to update my app to allow EU users to opt out of targeted ads. Why Admob doesn't just add this functionality to their widget they place in my app is beyond me. In order to update my apps, I need to target a newer version of Android. It's not that it's very outdated, they were targeting Android 5.0, and get updated every 6 months or so. But a change in the Android API has made this very difficult for me. Being a side business, I had to make the choice - let go of the $600/mo I was making from ad revenue, or continue with the constant barrage of code updates required from Google for my apps to work. I decided to let it go. My app would still be on Google Play, even though I couldn't update it, if it weren't for GDPR. They pulled it due to non-GDPR compliance. So, yeah, GDPR has costed me $600/mo. I'm sure there are a lot of others with complex stories about how these regulations affect them. BTW I support GDPR and privacy as a whole, and wish my native USA would take privacy more seriously. It is the details of the implementation that are lacking. I also suspect that Google uses policies (such as putting the burden of Admob GDPR compliance on the publishers) to try to push out small developers.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#199

People underestimate what a big pain in the ass internet has been for the EU bureaucrats in the last 5 years. They can't just remove users freedom in one hit, they need to do it slowly: cookie laws, gdpr, copyright. And of course they always put a little bit of "sense" in every rule. This is a classic tactic that has been used by State organizations for maybe thousands of years. You can find examples in ancient Rome,…

How does GDPR remove user freedom?

It forbids letting users exchange their information for access to a service. (Because you can't disallow access if they don't agree to data collection). You can say any such deal is inherently bad and users shouldn't have that option, and you might even be correct, but it's still a restriction of freedom.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#200

Another possibility: the EU is serious and wants the content farm to show ads business model to die.

What's you definition of a content farm? This bill essentially targets online online medium you can upload and share content on. This should be reworded to the EU is serious and wants to go back to Web 1.0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7tA3NNKF0Q&t=1s

This does a very good job of explaining how small content creators are practically powerless now on the web in terms of protecting their content being stolen.

Post reply on HN