EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter • Hacker News Board

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#181

Post by Superleroy » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 1:25 PM UTC

q12we34rt5 wrote: post #105

Superleroy wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I almost had to laugh after the US just recently abolished Net Neutrality. And what is the grind with cookie notices and GDPR? I very much like to know what companies can do with my data, what data they have and demand deletion of it. This is not against companies, it's for people. Companies should have had these information in the first place, now they just need to display it to the user but I guess thats too much t…

>I almost had to laugh after the US just recently abolished Net Neutrality Your laughter is misplaced. America didn't have net neutrality up until fairly recently and before it was enacted, the internet worked just fine. It'll work just fine now. And if it really matters that much to you that you feel some kind of emotional release from your own worries, just know that many states are already putting laws on the book…

I did not laugh at others misfortune or moral failing but at the following sentence "the US feels like the only place where users have the freedom to choose what their internet should be". I do not laugh at people having only a single choice of ISP or the abolishment of NN, but at the blindness with which that statement was made. If by "users" ISPs are meant then I agree, but let's be real, users often don't even have a real choice of ISPs, let alone what "internet should be", whatever that means.

With the rest of what you wrote, I don't even know what argument you are referencing. Was it that I said the internet is shitty? Nowhere did I say that you can't access a website so Im not exactly sure why you want to test access to websites or state that you can stream video. Is that all it takes for you to say that your internet is "working just fine"? Maybe I understand that statemend a little wider than you do, so let me elaborate: When I say "it's really shitty" I mean more than just accessing websites, I mean bad industry practices, non competing ISPs and no or limited choice of ISP, total surveillance, rampant data collection by big companies, etc. For me this is not a sign of a "fine" working internet. But if you limit it to "I can access websites" then I agree with you.

To your last point, I never asserted that your Internet is slow or that you can't access sites, so I don't know why you keep misstating my comments.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#182

Post by raverbashing » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 1:30 PM UTC

timrichard wrote: post #168

raverbashing wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct (once the directive is approved), but there are also degrees and (limited) changes that can be put by member states.

Confused about how that would work in practice. I took a cursory look out of interest : https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... I can see how Directive wording is either taken verbatim ('copy-out'), or brought into harmony with existing laws to avoid duplication. Not sure how something could be implemented 50% (like a degree), or parts ignored completely. Also, wouldn't any limited changes hav…

Nice, that's a very informative document. Minimum requirements and avoiding golden-plating seem to be base principles.

It's probably not a copy-paste nor a 'pick and choose' but something that has a bit of flexibility (and it also has to be harmonized with local law).

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#183

Post by AsyncAwait » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 1:31 PM UTC

baroffoos wrote: post #15

spaceribs wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Centralization loses. Publicly available content loses. A global community loses. Individuals are too many, faster and more clever than any one company can ever imagine to outmaneuver, it just means our shared internet culture becomes more localized and hidden.

I'm fairly sure this will mean more centralization as youtube will be the only one able to comply with the laws and everyone else will be locked out.

Worth pointing out that anyone could run their own instance of PeerTube[1], for their own content, if they wished.

I think the bigger issue is that many YT creators rely on its ads for revenue.

1 - https://joinpeertube.org/en

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#184

Post by iso1337 » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 1:34 PM UTC

gmueckl wrote: post #57

iso1337 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's legislate that all cars must attain 150 mpg and cost less than $10,000. The EU proposals are approaching that kind of absurdity.

The Renault Twizy falls into that category. You need to find a better absurd example in the future ;).

Ah good to know :)

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#185

Post by AsyncAwait » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 1:35 PM UTC

nicky0 wrote: post #170

andybak wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree that getting the region wrong is sloppy. But how does one avoid asking every time when cookies are blocked? What other implementation option is possible? This is what cookies are for .

I wish browsers had a "do track" option which told every website: yes I consent, do what you want, just don't show me a popup. These cookies banners and GDPR popups have ruined the web.

So ads that follow you everywhere and inescapable email signup forms haven't done it, but "cookies banners and GDPR popups have ruined the web". Got it.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#186

Post by kodablah » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 1:37 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #176

kodablah wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite best efforts, there's just no way around the general notion that affecting the tide affects all boats. You take the bad with the good of an internet with fewer restrictions, or you add both bad and good for everyone with restrictions. Even attempts to target legislation tend to have an unquantifiable ripple effect beyond the foresight of naive legislators.

Despite best efforts, there's just no way around the general notion that affecting the tide affects all boats. Of course there is. You just add a minimum scale requirement before these obligations kick in, so they only affect sites that are big enough both to cause significant problems with illegitimate uploads and to have the resources to do something reasonable about it. Laws are written like this all the time in p…

> Of course there is. You just add a minimum scale requirement before these obligations kick in, so they only affect sites that are big enough

This is what I'm referencing in my last sentence, "Even attempts to target legislation tend to have an unquantifiable ripple effect beyond the foresight of naive legislators." This naive view doesn't respect the intertwining nature of businesses of all sizes that work in the industry nor does it take into account the chilling effects on growth (the latter being less of an issue). Small businesses lean on larger ones that might be targeted in a myriad of ways including infrastructure, standards, software, employment, acquisition potential, marketing, etc. Targeting them is like targeting me and to say "only affect sites that are big enough" is part of the classist dialog that too often exists in a utopian vacuum that assumes all results are the exact representation of their intentions.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#187

Post by AsyncAwait » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 1:47 PM UTC

kodablah wrote: post #145

Scaevolus wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least GDPR is intended to help actual people, instead of increasing media-holders' stranglehold over their content.

Why does it matter what it is intended to do?

Because intent matters?

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#188

Post by AsyncAwait » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 1:56 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #163

I'm okay with this if the government provides me with a black box that will tell me if content is legal or not.

That'll however require that all data uploaded with your service will have to go via such black box, so you'll essentially perform mass surveillance for them.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#189

Post by TheCoelacanth » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 1:56 PM UTC

perl4ever wrote: post #137

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only people unclear on this point are people who have failed to do even the most basic research into what GDPR says. It is blindingly obvious that an email is information that can be used to identify a person.

I'm not arguing with you. If it is clear, then it suggests people saying it is not clear are basically trolls. Surely you can see that telling an apparent troll to admit being a troll is unproductive. You might be right, or you might be wrong, but you can't win that debate because it's about inner motivations and perceptions and not verifiable facts.

Whether something is clear or not is not dependent on whether a specific person knows it.

A reasonable person who is even minimally informed about GDPR will know that an email address is covered by GDPR, hence it is "clear".

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#190

Post by amelius » Tue, Dec 11, 2018, 2:05 PM UTC

AsyncAwait wrote: post #188

amelius wrote: post #163

I'm okay with this if the government provides me with a black box that will tell me if content is legal or not.

That'll however require that all data uploaded with your service will have to go via such black box, so you'll essentially perform mass surveillance for them.

That's why I said box, and not service ;)