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EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

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Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#151

Post by hamilyon2 »

dorgo wrote: post #128
sonnyblarney wrote: post #36

It would be prudent for Wikipedia at this time to shut down service in the EU, and simply put up a banner indicating that they can't comply with XYZ regulation. Regular folks in all walks of life, and also the bureaucracy would immediately be effected. It would be a 'shock' to Europe and a powerful signal of how vital these resources are, and the real extent they are messing with them. Basically, everyone would becom…

Afaik wikipedia has no copyright or something. So somebody would create a read-only copy (less than 100GB, I guess), call it wikipedia2.com and everyone would use the copy..

And Google would swiftly and automatically rank it high in all of EU. /s

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#152

Post by Sir_Substance »

XCabbage wrote: post #140
Sir_Substance wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you ask for your data to be deleted does that include your address in my contacts? I'm assuming that "my" in this sentence means a business, since individuals are not subject to GDPR, and that the thrust of your question revolves around, say, a customer support portal. Yes, addresses have to go unless you have a legitimate business reason to keep them. For tax purposes or to prove something in an active court cas…

> I'm assuming that "my" in this sentence means a business, since individuals are not subject to GDPR No; tokyodude is asking what happens if you request that (for example) Google erases your data, and he has your email address in his Gmail contacts. Does Google, as the data controller who ultimately stores tokyodude's contact list for him, then have to purge your email address from tokyodude's address book? > Listen…

>No; tokyodude is asking what happens if you request that (for example) Google erases your data, and he has your email address in his Gmail contacts.

Oh, well in that case this is explicitly handled in recital 18. https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-18/

> Point (b) seems to suggest that it applies by default if the basis for originally processing the data was the subject's consent... but that the controller can override that if they have another legal ground for processing.

Yes.

>So even if the legitimate interests argument above would hold, if you're a 12-year-old, I think you absolutely can demand that your email address be purged from tokyodude's address book and he can't do anything about it?

Yes.

>How about your actual emails to him? Can you demand that Google deletes them from his inbox?

Covered in recital 18.

I totally agree with all your interpretations, well done. See what I mean about it not being that complex?

Not that you shouldn't run all this past your company lawyer to make sure they agree mind you. After all, companies keep lawyers around for input on exactly these kinds of issues, might as well get your moneys worth.

It's ok for you as a software developer to be unsure about some of these things, you're not a trained lawyer. What I'm being condescending about is software developers wailing "oh it's impossibly byzantine, oh it's impenetrable, oh woe, oh drat, oh heavy is the burden of being me in a GDPR-compliant era". Software developers regularly read documentation more complex than the GDPR legislation. Jesus, you'd think it was written in latin the way some people on hacker news cry about it.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#153

Post by jinglebells »

majewsky wrote: post #81
roblabla wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you propose the website remembers your preference except through the use of a cookie? Cookies are the only way to keep client side state in a cross browser way. Keep in mind, cookies for non tracking purpose are allowed under the cookie law.

They should use localStorage. Unlike cookies, localStorage doesn't get transmitted to the server.

Certain security policies block localStorage, though. There doesn't seem to be a perfect place to store it.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#154

Post by a_imho »

dorgo wrote: post #123
a_imho wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only remember my preferences when I explicitly ask the site and opt-in to cookies?

That's the reason you see cookie-banners. They are your chance to opt-in.

Surely not, I see cookie banners at the very first chance they can throw them at me, way before I would need them for anything.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#155

Post by eitland »

perl4ever wrote: post #142
majewsky wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why though? Email addresses are quite obviously "something that identifies a person".

I'm not debating what's clear or not to me . My point is that it's subjective and if someone says a thing is unclear, you can not necessarily make it clear to them or force them to admit they are lying about their perception. Arguing with confusion is like debating whether someone is in pain when they act like they are. It could be they are lying. It could be they are not. It could be they are particularly stupid. I…

> It could be they are lying. It could be they are not. It could be they are particularly stupid.

At the point where one can prove that one part is too (trollish || stupid) I think it is reasonable to limit how much we care about their opinions.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#156

Post by johnchristopher »

sjroot wrote: post #3

Policies like this make it glaringly obvious how little our government representatives around the world understand technology. It almost seems malicious, or at the very least anticompetitive. Who has access to such filtering systems already, or the resources to create one? GRPR regulations, while I absolutely realize their necessity, have made it difficult for me to expand my side business into the EU. This would jus…

What if:

> Genetics regulations, while I absolutely realize their necessity, have made it difficult for me to expand my side business into the EU. This would just be another road block for innovation.

When I look at GDPR I see a safeguard against mass surveillance and dystopian add ruled societies.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#157

Post by johnchristopher »

quanticle wrote: post #22
sjroot wrote: post #3

Policies like this make it glaringly obvious how little our government representatives around the world understand technology. It almost seems malicious, or at the very least anticompetitive. Who has access to such filtering systems already, or the resources to create one? GRPR regulations, while I absolutely realize their necessity, have made it difficult for me to expand my side business into the EU. This would jus…

The greatest irony is EU regulators whining about the dominance of Google, Facebook, etc, while passing regulations like this which make it impossible for anyone to compete with their ilk. Google and Facebook will have no trouble building the automated filters that are mandated by this legislation. The impact of this will be felt entirely by smaller companies with either will shut down, or, more likely, will never be…

It was also believed that Facebook and Google were GDPR ready and only them could be. That's not what happened.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#158

Post by XCabbage »

Sir_Substance wrote: post #152
XCabbage wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm assuming that "my" in this sentence means a business, since individuals are not subject to GDPR No; tokyodude is asking what happens if you request that (for example) Google erases your data, and he has your email address in his Gmail contacts. Does Google, as the data controller who ultimately stores tokyodude's contact list for him, then have to purge your email address from tokyodude's address book? > Listen…

>No; tokyodude is asking what happens if you request that (for example) Google erases your data, and he has your email address in his Gmail contacts. Oh, well in that case this is explicitly handled in recital 18. https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-18/ > Point (b) seems to suggest that it applies by default if the basis for originally processing the data was the subject's consent... but that the controller can override…

I think part of the issue here is that a plain English reading of the GDPR implies such appalling totalitarian overreach that most people find it hard to believe that it can really be what's meant.

I mean, you've just agreed with my reading that the GDPR gives me the power to reach into your personal inbox and censor your records of communications with me. That sort of power for bad actors to carry out historical revisionism on what until now we'd've thought of as someone else's data is unprecedented and - at least to me - a pretty frightening threat to freedom of information and a culture of truth. And meanwhile we've got people running around Hacker News saying "GDPR is all wonderful, it's just common-sense privacy protections, and if your business isn't spying on users without their consent and selling their data you'll be fine".

You're clearly confident that the (to me, somewhat dystopian) interpretations we discussed just above will hold up in court. I'm not, even though they worry me and seem to me to be the most straightforward plain English reading of the bill. That doubt - and associated anger at the failure of the EU to bring greater clarity to these sorts of points before now - seem to me to be reasonable, and not a worthy target for condescension.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#159

Post by ThomPete »

johnchristopher wrote: post #156
sjroot wrote: post #3

Policies like this make it glaringly obvious how little our government representatives around the world understand technology. It almost seems malicious, or at the very least anticompetitive. Who has access to such filtering systems already, or the resources to create one? GRPR regulations, while I absolutely realize their necessity, have made it difficult for me to expand my side business into the EU. This would jus…

What if: > Genetics regulations, while I absolutely realize their necessity, have made it difficult for me to expand my side business into the EU. This would just be another road block for innovation. When I look at GDPR I see a safeguard against mass surveillance and dystopian add ruled societies.

GDRP is a reflection of a mass surveiled and dystopian ad ruled society. GDRP makes it HARDER for consumers once the’ve consented. All that will happen is that this will be gamed instead.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#160

Post by mrmattyboy »

Feels like a this would be appropriate analogy that they might be able to understand how rediculous it is:

* Police may or may not put cameras everywhere

* Police MUST catch criminals as soon as they break the law, otherwise the police would be as accountable as the criminal.

* Policy CANNOT ever talk to, interact with or accuse non-law breaking citizens

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