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My Family’s Slave

theatlantic.com

231–240 of 645 posts

Re: My Family’s Slave

#231
My parents were born and have lived in Pakistan for their entire childhood up to adulthood. They then moved to the United States, where I was born and have lived for my entire life.

On occasion, I visited my parent's home in Pakistan, although the trips became increasingly scarce as grandparents passed (now all four are gone).

The house has always had domestic workers present, a single family. The first few times a maid, who we called Maacy whose children went to a nearby school and whose husband would work nearby.

Her family was among the lower classes of the country, and her salary brought her and her children opportunities she could never otherwise have had. I remember talking with her in the small room that was her quarters; sometimes I would help her with her work.

On later visits, she had left and another family, whose father served as the household driver occupied the same space. One time, I saw the previous maid attending a gathering that was taking place. She recognized me immediately, sharing an embrace and leaving me on my way.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#232

This story highlights just how blurry and complex things can get. Maybe to a lesser extent we are all slaves of the system because we have to work increasingly long hours for an ever decreasing wage. I think that the most kind-hearted and generous people tend to slowly slip into slavery over time because the system tends to reward greedy, selfish people. The sudden, massive collapse of the system will come when there…

Nassim Nicholas Taleb - "The three most harmful addictions are heroin, carbohydrates, and a monthly salary".

Re: My Family’s Slave

#233
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for people who don't click the link: a larger number is better. it's ranking by prevalence, so countries like North Korea (rank #1) worse than countries like the U.S. (#52) and Australia (also #52). I couldn't find a country that was ranked #167 out of #167, though. I think #52 is as high as it goes.

Yeah, looks like most of the West is tied for #52.

Due to all of them having an estimated 0.018% in slavery, which seems kind of arbitrary so they should really mark that as some sort of minimal slavery standard rather than make it look like an estimate actually based on the country.

Site seems pretty good overall but is missing a hard facts and figures section to go alongside the nice graphical interface. They appear to offer a pdf report but they wanted me to request access to get it.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#234

I had a terrible "Billy" moment a few years ago. I was travelling and a friend said I could use her house, because it was empty. This was perfect for me, since I had a wife and kid. It turns out there was a housekeeper. She did everything for us, made us feel very comfortable, cooked, served, helped with the kid, etc. Then one day I found out she didn't have her own room, despite the place being a multi storey mansio…

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing

Re: My Family’s Slave

#235
post #99
post #51

Great read! Many Asian countries have the concept of live-in housekeepers. I think the 'best' (scraping the bottom, here) arrangement is in Singapore, where the government, laws, and law-enforcement ensure that immigrant live-in housekeepers are treated fairly- kinda like au pairs, etc. in the US. I knew someone in India who brought their live-in maid's sister to the US in some capacity (and AFAIK, paid her wages- sh…

Abuse is rampant in Singapore as well though. For example, if a maid becomes pregnant, they have to leave Singapore immediately and the employer gets fined -- so it's common to lock them in the apartment 24/7/365 for however many years their contract is. Legally, they're supposed to have one day a week off, but in practice this is not enforced and the maid has no leverage: many have paid large sums to brokers and nee…

Yes, I've seen families in Malaysia and Singapore that really treated their housekeeper badly. In a lot of cases, they are not allowed to go out of the apartment either because of potential pregnancy or because they are scared of the housekeeper stealing things from them.

They bring housekeepers from Indonesia and pay them very little. The housekeepers have to work a lot of hours and are pretty much treated as slaves. Often, the housekeepers are not allowed to eat at the same table, they have to eat after everyone has eaten, they don't sleep in a proper room but rather in a storage room.

At least, there's a contract and they do get money at the end but it's really a hard life and hardly more freedom than being a prisoner.

It always shocked me when I saw people that I thought were educated and friendly treat their housekeepers this way.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#236
post #141

Truly remarkable story. One thing that struck me is that Lola did so much of the work of a traditional mother's role: raising the kids, cooking, cleaning, laundry, and even providing emotional support. The mother had to take on a traditional father's role in bringing home an income. And the actual father - well, he did neither role and seemed to just freeload, gamble, abuse, and finally disappear. All of the work in…

So, her name wasn't actually Lola. It was Eudocia Tomas Pulido. Lola was literally her slave name.

There's a lot to talk about in the article, and I'm not super-excited about digging deep into that here on hn, but I think it's worthwhile to point out her real name.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We're very much measuring and optimizing for money and the kinds of goods and services money can be exchanged for. "Money" is just a metric of economic value, and basically everything has an economic value, including leisure. The emotional and educational value of raising your own children instead of putting them in a daycare has a real economic value that can be measured in dollars. Just like housework has an econo…

we could as a society pay (women) people for emotional labor and for taking care of children and elderly. we could choose to economically value teachers and nurses instead of economically devaluing "feminine" roles -- and creating economic value specifically for masculine-branded roles. (those moments when piloting and programming became branded and $$ as male professions) in order to end professional segregation, we…

>we could as a society pay (women) people for emotional labor

They already get paid for emotional labor with emotional reward.

>we could choose to economically value teachers and nurses instead of economically devaluing "feminine" roles

Maybe you could stop being sexist and calling things like education and nursing "feminine."

>in order to end professional segregation

If you can point out actual instances of sexism in professions I'll be happy to back you up. Differential outcomes is not sufficient evidence of sexism. There are sexist people out there, and I'll be happy to metaphorically march alongside you against any of them.

>it's complicated, and testosterone may even be a disability in a sense

LOL, testosterone is a disability? According to you testosterone lets one gender "win" so it sounds like estrogen would be the disability, right?

>, but many of the differences between genders are not biological so much as social constructs that re-enforce constructed economic inequality.

Maybe money isn't the most important thing in the world? Maybe instead of complaining that there aren't more women at the top of the income food chain, we should be asking why any men at all are willing to work themselves to death to get there? Maybe women enjoy better lives than men because they realize earlier on that it's our connections and family that matters the most in life and they live their lives accordingly while men generally don't figure that out until much later in life. Maybe the reason why reported happiness among women has been on the decline since we wrote all these laws encouraging families to break up and shoving women into the shitty corporate ladder lifestyle men have been on for longer should tell us something about life.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#238
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. In the middle class, the relationship isn't as distinguished. Usually, the salary really is just an "allowance", like the author stated. Other families already consider feeding the help & providing a roof for them as their salary.

Those other families are masters in a master-slave relationship.

I would argue that the salaries aren't enough, but as long as they have freedom to quit and leave, and their children aren't beholden to their debts, it isn't slavery.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#239
post #76

When I was in elementary school in the 80s one of my friends has a "nanny" who slept on a cot in the laundry room in the basement. I didn't think much of it, a few of us had housekeepers and I just imagined a few other people had live-in help too, like on TV shows... A year or two into our friendship, I was over at their house after school and around dinner time I asked if I could stay. The parents said, "Sure, no pr…

> we probably all know a Lola Not sure what your value of "we" is. I've never met anyone like Lola, and I've never heard a story like this from anyone I know. Then again, I didn't have a housekeeper or know anyone who did. People in my social class were glad to keep the electric bill paid and have a working car to drive.

Degrees of Lola...

I bet if you peek your head in the kitchen of your top 5 favorite restaurants, you'll find someone on the dishwashing or cleaning staff who is an immigrant and signs over most, if not all, of their paycheck to a "sponsor" here who looks after them. Gives them a place to stay, helps them with language barriers, etc. Or if you know of anyone who has done a mail-order-bride-type thing...

While you may not interact with these people, I bet you see them in your day-to-day life.

Re: My Family’s Slave

#240

Horribly compelling story. When Ulysses S Grants father-in-law died a few years before the civil war, he left them his slave. The Grants were dead broke, Ulysses had failed at farming and the slave was worth a lot of money, they could have worked him or sold him to make the their life instantly better. Instead Ulysses took him to the courthouse and made him a free man. How hard is it to have empathy for others?

While the historical record is clear that Grant freed a slave named William Jones in 1859, Grant's father-in-law, Frederick Dent, died in 1873 at the White House (Grant was president at the time).

It is clear that Jones was previously owned by Dent, but when and how Grant acquired him from his father-in-law, as well as Grant's motivations for freeing him are not known.

See http://www.snopes.com/confederate-history-slave-ownership/ or https://www.researchgate.net/publication/297734845_Ulysses_S... or almost any other reputable source.

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