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What is really happening in Ukraine

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Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#221

Post by pipy »

avasylev wrote: post #200
pipy wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what Ukrainian lefties write: "One of the major forces at Euromaidan is the far-right xenophobic party ‘Svoboda’ (‘Freedom’). They are dominant among the volunteering guards of the protest camp and are the vanguard of the most radical street actions such as the occupation of the administrative buildings in the center of Kiev. Before 2004 ‘Svoboda’ was called Social-National Party of Ukraine and used Nazi ‘Wolf…

You should have also cited some Russian news... But there's some truth in this - 'Svoboda' is indeed far-right party, but it definitely doesn't have trained militants and I don't recall any "hate crimes against migrants and political opponents". 'Svoboda' is only one of the forces, having or not having Svoboda there doesn't change anything.

> You should have also cited some Russian news...

I do investigate my sources of information and, when discussing anything, I always try to use sources that are legitimate to all discussing parties.

So, please, don't invent stuff. This information source is not sympathetic to Russia. Also, it supports the Ukrainian protests. I have yet to read a single article from Cпільне that is pro-Russia in even the slightest way.

> Having or not having Svoboda there doesn't change anything.

Back in the autumn on one of the Moscow suburban electric train stations I've spoken to a man from Ukraine that has said that the economic situation in the country is terrible and it is on the brink of the civil war.

I wish Ukrainians all the best in their struggle for freedom and better life, but the main players of Ukrainian opposition might be much better off not allying itself with Nazi sympathizers. If they won't do it, they might alienate Eastern Ukrainians that also hate Yanukovych to the point that they might have an armed internal conflict.

Just my 2 cents.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#222

Post by dimitar »

darkbot wrote: post #157

Wow, some this is some epic propaganda. Closer to truth is that this is more a coup-d'etat by the Ukrainian fascist paramilitary. The liberal Ukrainian opposition has been chased out of greater parts of the Maidan square and is now in control of "Right Sector", a loosely based umbrella coalition between various fascist and nazi organisations and parties. These extremist wants to ignite a civil war to "cleanse Ukraine…

The black and red flags are symbols of OUN-UPA - a WWII era insurgent army that fought both the Nazis and the USSR. Many different groups, parties and individuals use these very general symbols. They represent the Ukrainian struggle for independence, not a racist or anti-semitic agenda.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#223

Post by darkbot »

gkoz wrote: post #156
mratzloff wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I must say that this "beautifully done" presentation is completely one-sided, unbalanced, and manipulates with both real and made-up facts. OK... How?

Is there any evidence or confirmation by the press of 'dozens of unidentified dead bodies?'

Not that I am aware of.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#224

Post by grey-area »

Demiurge wrote: post #45
yawz wrote: post #28

Very scary similarities with what has happened in Turkey. I have amazing respect for all those brave people risking their lives to say "No!" to tyranny. They are the modern day heroes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuO53xeZkm8 Does this look like brave people risking their lives to say "No!" to tyranny, or like a bunch of young energetic people who have no idea about whats going on in politics throwing molotov cocktails at police?

Does this look like a responsible police force maintaining order?

http://www.policymic.com/articles/79771/this-photo-is-going-...

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#225

Post by ssalenik »

levosmetalo wrote: post #153
stargazer-3 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Association pact is a purely economical agreement that is mediated by governments only. So no, he did not violate anything. However, 42% of the population supports European integration, while only 31% wants to join the Customs Union, seen as USSR v2.0

And that is the problem here. No side has a clear majority, and any decision is going to be tough. Forcing the decision, either one, in this moment can lead only to country wide divide, since both parties feel stronly about this topic, and no compromise is possible. Whatever is my opinion is not important, but "huge majority" of 42% shouldn't be allowed to force their decision to "only" 31% minority. I think Janukovi…

The protests are not about the deal with the EU or Russia. The protests are against the current corrupt government in general and its brutal response to the initially peaceful protests. Having spoken to Ukrainians who have been participating in the protests, they told me that they would not care whether or not the EU nor the Russian deal is signed, they just want to get rid of the current government either way.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#226

Post by gus_massa »

ynniv wrote: post #210
gus_massa wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This map was discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5566582 (70 points, 248 days ago, 41 comments). I’ll quote the second comment by julespitt: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5566911 > Ahem... http://www.federalreserve.gov/otherfrb.htm . > Cash is managed through the regional branches of the Federal Reserve, and while there are some boundaries on that map that don't line up, it mostly seems to be…

There is certainly influence, but the Federal Reserve regions map doesn't align especially well with the study map. As a New Yorker from Connecticut, the gigantic barrier between New York and New England would have to be nearly completely explained by the Fed. Having also grown up in Connecticut, New Englanders aren't as likely to go to New York as one would expect from the proximity. Young folks, especially in Conne…

I agree that the alignment is not perfect.

Previous previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5457329 (115 points, 304 days ago, 44 comments).

For #12, I think that the correct explanation is in the comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5459260 (by skwirl):

> I can do no more than guess, but I think you are right about the San Francisco district. It is a large district and the notes have to be physically carted back and forth to some distribution center, so it looks like they created three locations to do this - one in San Francisco, one in Seattle, and one in Salt Lake City.

My guess is that the other discrepancies are caused by strong economical and population integration of the areas and perhaps more subdistricts.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#227

Post by lgieron »

viraptor wrote: post #170
mbq wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland already shares a border with Russia, so it doesn't matter. The support for the revolution seems mostly to come from a sort of post-collonial thinking that Ukrainians will praise Poles as saviours and the former sea-to-sea glory of the Polish Empire will be reinstituted. How naive, sadly.

With one barely significant part - yes it does. In most conversations that border is basically ignored. I'm talking about what impression people have about the Ukraine situation. Also, I've honestly never heard the idea of praise to the saviours before. Mostly it's just the memory of Russia and any government control they impose having terrible results. Noone seriously thinks about the Polish Empire anymore. Or at le…

The Law and Order (PiS) party is effectively about amping our influence in the region, in the spirit of old traditions. See the meddling in Georgia, bullshit acquisition of refinery in Latvia etc.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#229

Post by pinaceae »

crypt1d wrote: post #177
imdsm wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Poor language skills Or English is their second language? So Poor English language skills?

Yes, they are probably not native English speakers. But then again, this is a major topic so I would expect that anyone who presents it to a broad audience at least makes the effort to do it properly. The language used here is just one of many things that give the impression that the person who made it has no idea what he/she is talking about.

did you check the declaration of independence for errors as well? jefferson spelt british with two TTs in there.

the US constitution? "pensylvania".

so complete bullshit then as well, right? your horse is so high you shit into space.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#230

Post by zby »

sethbannon wrote: post #74

People being kidnapped from hospital beds and tortured by their own government. It's hard to imagine a more depraved situation.

This is not really sure that it was the government that kidnapped them. You have to take into account that there are more players there than just the government and the opposition.
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