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What is really happening in Ukraine

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Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#41

Post by Demiurge »

arca_vorago wrote: post #21

That's actually a very well done summary. I have an acquaintance that is Ukrainian and I have been asking her about it. Pretty much what happened so far can be summed up as "The leadership betrayed the Ukrainian people to Russia under pressure from Putin" and both of generally agree that it's too late now to stop, and that the protesters have to be at least partially successful or else it is likely there will be more…

I wonder what you'll think if you have another friend who is saying completely the opposite.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#42

Post by Igor_TN »

steven2012 wrote: post #18

I heard that there are a lot of nukes in Ukraine and the last thing the world wants is those split off into separate hands. I would harbor a guess that the US would rather have those nukes in the hands of Russia, who is a known evil but rational, vs someone else entirely new. I read on Stratfor that Russia does not want Ukraine to become independent because it's basically the "soft underbelly" leading into Russia. It…

All nukes went from Ukraine to Russia (same in other former Soviet republics) after the Soviet Union broke apart. It all was regulated by proper treaties. You should not listen to rumors.

Regarding your next statement, Russia is not interfering in what is happening in Ukraine AT ALL. As opposed to EU and US who send their emissaries to Ukraine very often. The only "interference" from Russia is giving to Ukraine a huge credit and pushing down the gas prices which I guess is more help than interference. Also, this is not about Putin or anybody else. Most of Ukraine is culturally and historically extremely close to Russia. They are pretty much the same people. This may not be true regarding a couple of the most Western regions of the country. Those guys, I believe, have their full right on "independence" but that effectively would mean the split of the country which is the hardest thing to do.

Please be careful with selectively picked information. It's not constructive and not helpful.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#43

Post by stargazer-3 »

mitchelllc wrote: post #27
stargazer-3 wrote: post #7

This is much more informative and complete than any Western media news report. (Disclosure: I grew up in Kiev)

Yanukovich refused to sign EU association in November. I am wondering if the EU association was approved by most of Ukrainian through voting (or other ways), and Yanukovich disobeyed the voting results.

Association pact is a purely economical agreement that is mediated by governments only. So no, he did not violate anything. However, 42% of the population supports European integration, while only 31% wants to join the Customs Union, seen as USSR v2.0

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#44

Post by steven2012 »

steven2012 wrote: post #18

I heard that there are a lot of nukes in Ukraine and the last thing the world wants is those split off into separate hands. I would harbor a guess that the US would rather have those nukes in the hands of Russia, who is a known evil but rational, vs someone else entirely new. I read on Stratfor that Russia does not want Ukraine to become independent because it's basically the "soft underbelly" leading into Russia. It…

Whoops, I guess I heard wrong about the nukes in Ukraine. Thanks for the information!

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#45

Post by Demiurge »

yawz wrote: post #28

Very scary similarities with what has happened in Turkey. I have amazing respect for all those brave people risking their lives to say "No!" to tyranny. They are the modern day heroes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuO53xeZkm8

Does this look like brave people risking their lives to say "No!" to tyranny, or like a bunch of young energetic people who have no idea about whats going on in politics throwing molotov cocktails at police?

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#46

Post by randomafrican »

mtrimpe wrote: post #4
kome wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a civil war because a lot of Ukrainians speaks Russian and want a "Russian" Ukraine.

It's not so much about whether they speak Russian or not. Eastern Ukraine is just generally closer ideologically to Russia whereas Western Ukraine prefers to maintain close ties with Europe. You can see that reflected quite clearly in the split between west and east in where the protests are. In general the president is supported by the eastern part of Ukraine, but is also a convicted criminal who sent the previous p…

>who sent the previous president to jail on trumped up charges

Previous Prime Minister.

And I'm not 100% sure the charges are totally trumped up.

Not that it changes anything.

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#48

Post by JonnieCache »

hackerboos wrote: post #22
stargazer-3 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't Americans split the USA into two parts, the red one and the blue one?

More than 2 parts: http://www.clevelandleader.com/files/splitus.JPG

Wow. A provocative diagram. Here's the source: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB123051100709638419

Re: What is really happening in Ukraine

#49

Post by GrahamsNumber »

kenster07 wrote: post #36
steven2012 wrote: post #18

I heard that there are a lot of nukes in Ukraine and the last thing the world wants is those split off into separate hands. I would harbor a guess that the US would rather have those nukes in the hands of Russia, who is a known evil but rational, vs someone else entirely new. I read on Stratfor that Russia does not want Ukraine to become independent because it's basically the "soft underbelly" leading into Russia. It…

I'm curious as to what you mean when you say Russia is a "known evil." Are you alluding to real life? Movies? The Cold War? It would seem that true rationality and evil have little to do with one another.

'Murica
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