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Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

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Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#221

Post by perihelions »

vintermann wrote: post #66
Scarblac wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But online blitz chess when you're 16 is not "part of a professional competitive career".

It can be. Being professional doesn't mean being good, it means doing something for money, and there is money at stake in some online blitz tournaments. One important question is whether Niemann has cheated in tournaments with prizes or "only" in ladder-type games (he's only admitted to the latter as I understand)

It's professional either way, since he used his Chess.com profile for his Twitch streaming.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#222

Post by greyman »

addicted wrote: post #126
tibbar wrote: post #2

For context, Magnus withdrew from a major tournament last month after losing to Hans. He has not made a statement, but it is understood that he suspects Hans of cheating. Hans has admitted to cheating online, though he denies cheating in person. As more evidence comes out, it seems that Hans has cheated a lot more than he admitted, and potentially over the board as well (for example, this analysis [1] shows that he's…

There is nothing that can help Magnus’s case because Magnus has made no case. He played Hans at the meltwater tournament, and beat him. A few weeks later, he played Hans again at the Sinquefeld cup, and lost to him. After which he posted a cryptic Jose Mourinho meme. And a few weeks later he played Hans online and resigned in 1 move. What’s Magnus’s case? What has he said his case is? What’s his argument? That losing…

>After which he posted a cryptic Jose Mourinho meme

AND left the tournament, which he never did before, and it almost never happens that someone leaves the tournament without stating why. Magnus case is, that he accuses Niemann of cheating, it is very simple. :-) He didn't say that, but he acted like that, he communicated it with his actions.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#223

Post by wongarsu »

FartyMcFarter wrote: post #133
wheresmycraisin wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, when it's something that's unprovable (if done well enough), reputation can play a role, esp. if it's golden boy v.s. admitted past cheater. And Carlsen didn't technically accuse him and Niemann is not technically on trial, so "innocent until proven guilty" is irrelevant. Magnus's goal seems to be to get Niemann disinvited from tournaments. He's taking such drastic measures for a reason at the expense of his own…

You definitely don't have to trust his judgment. People change, he could be paranoid at the moment for all we know. Magnus should explain his actions to the organisers and the public, or just not enter tournaments.

> Magnus should explain his actions to the organisers

He almost certainly explained himself to the organizers of the Sinquefield Cup, given how they instituted more anti-cheating measures as soon as he withdrew. They knew what was up, they just didn't come to a good resolution with Magnus and he withdrew instead.

> and the public

No good can come from that, any resolution will be either Hans being caught red handed, tournaments employing anti-cheating measures that put Magnus at ease, or tournaments having to choose between inviting Hans or Magnus. None of those involve the public in any way.

> or just not enter tournaments

I'm pretty sure he told the organizers of this tournament "I'm not coming if Hans is coming", and they told him "you signed the contract months ago, you have to come". So instead Magnus did the closest equivalent to not playing Hans: play one move and forfeit.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#224

Post by Macha »

rglullis wrote: post #154
Semaphor wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is entertainment. I don’t care about any sports (though after a brief stint in watching LoL esports around 2011-2014, I at least understand the theoretical appeal), but many people do. Others don’t care about music. Or about films. But in the end all of it is bread and games.

Entertainment works as an answer of why we do it, but not the question I made, which is why/whether we should .

This is only a distinction if you consider entertainment without value

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#225

Post by LeonB »

H8crilA wrote: post #168
manojlds wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not supporting Magnus on his actions here. Just that this behaviour is a massive outlier for him.

Yes, and it doesn't matter.

Unlike pretty much everything in Chess, this is an international news story. That’s quite significant.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#226

Post by LeonB »

wongarsu wrote: post #223
FartyMcFarter wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You definitely don't have to trust his judgment. People change, he could be paranoid at the moment for all we know. Magnus should explain his actions to the organisers and the public, or just not enter tournaments.

> Magnus should explain his actions to the organisers He almost certainly explained himself to the organizers of the Sinquefield Cup, given how they instituted more anti-cheating measures as soon as he withdrew. They knew what was up, they just didn't come to a good resolution with Magnus and he withdrew instead. > and the public No good can come from that, any resolution will be either Hans being caught red handed,…

Yeh, it’s reasonable to assume this was the best move available to him, strategically. If he’s quiet: it’s for strategic reasons. If he play and forfeits, instead of not playing at all: it’s for strategic reasons. Etc. Saying it’s petulant or childish or whatever just shows you think toddlers are far more strategic than anyone realises.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#227

Post by kurupt213 »

davidguetta wrote: post #214
wheresmycraisin wrote: post #99

Magnus Carlsen has basically been a model champion for close to a decade now. He's not known for controversy and the odd situations where he dealt with less-than-classy opponents, he's taken it on the chin and moved on, usually with nothing more than brief statement. And he has been very positive about other younger GM's. So him coming out and "accusing" Niemann is akin to a nobel prize winning scientist accusing a g…

Even Karpov said he played badly in the Sinquefield game. Personally I think Hans didn't cheat in this game ...... but: my best theory is that Carlsen is afraid to play against people who HAVE cheated once, because there mere thought that he COULD be cheating right now is enough to derail him from clear thinking. I think this because it's exactly what he declared in an interview ABOUT cheating on 2021. So basically h…

So why even begin the match? The story would hold a lot more water if he boycotts from the outset

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#228

Post by perihelions »

ramraj07 wrote: post #4
tibbar wrote: post #2

For context, Magnus withdrew from a major tournament last month after losing to Hans. He has not made a statement, but it is understood that he suspects Hans of cheating. Hans has admitted to cheating online, though he denies cheating in person. As more evidence comes out, it seems that Hans has cheated a lot more than he admitted, and potentially over the board as well (for example, this analysis [1] shows that he's…

As someone who’s never been able to appreciate or follow sports where a machine can be an order of magnitude better than a human, I would genuinely like to understand why people are enamored about such sports. In the end it seems like brilliant minds lost in math that’s not even novel anymore.. again everyone should do what they please, but this is just an academic question from someone unable to appreciate such skil…

Why was that dog/bunny puzzle at the top of HN's frontpage yesterday? How were so many people entertained by it, when a computer could have solved it in microseconds?

Humans like puzzle games, for some intrinsic reason. Chess is a very large and addictive puzzle.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#229

Post by kurupt213 »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #213
wheresmycraisin wrote: post #99

Magnus Carlsen has basically been a model champion for close to a decade now. He's not known for controversy and the odd situations where he dealt with less-than-classy opponents, he's taken it on the chin and moved on, usually with nothing more than brief statement. And he has been very positive about other younger GM's. So him coming out and "accusing" Niemann is akin to a nobel prize winning scientist accusing a g…

Anyone should be considered innocent until proven guilty, this is a strong rule for a reason.

It’s not the rule, it’s a rather modern exception.

Re: Magnus Carlsen resigns against Hans Niemann after one move

#230

Post by dagw »

Nokinside wrote: post #125
linkdd wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're caught or admit to cheating even once in a professional competitive career that's it - You should be out for good Yeah, justice! If you steal something once in your life, straight to jail, for good. If you have a speeding ticket, no more driver license for the rest of your life. After all, people don't change, any mistake in life should be fatal and destroy your entire future.

In some areas of life the rule is more strict. Even a lowlife should be allowed to seek jobs etc. But lowlife should not be allowed in professional chess, and professional chess is not place for second changes.

professional chess is not place for second changes.

To you hold this view for all competitive endeavours or just chess? If you cheated in a high school basketball game, should you be barred from ever playing professional basketball.

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