Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

innovationaus.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 294 posts

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#221

Post by carrolldunham »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #212
justinmcp wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cries of "Tyranny!" and "Give me liberty or give me death" are imported concepts that don't resonate quite as well here in Australia. Maybe literally with those sayings, but up until sometime in the 80s, "its a free country" was a common refrain, which was rooted in the culture and expectations of the people. Something changed though.

Huh! Amazing! That’s something we used to say as children to each other at school. I’m now 40 amd don’t recall the last time I heard anyone say that.

We only said that because it was cold war rhetoric, it came from 'free' relative to communist ones. Now the contrast is gone it's rendered meaningless.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#222

Post by melomal »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #219

Well, we know that mass surveillance has been installed in the USA, we have detailed proof of it, and this hasn't change a thing. They are still under mass surveillance. And people are still carrying trackers in their pocker. They put cameras in the front door bell, always online microphones with speech analysis in their living room, give all their life records, textual or in images, to giants companies that have dem…

This literally is the divide between HN types and everyday individuals.

The latter pays little attention because they generally do not care whilst HN will debate and suggest endless fixes to the problem - which are always technically more difficult or cumbersome. This is why people buy Apple products on each iteration, religiously for some, because they want it to work, be pretty and the desire of everyone.

The UK has been well known for their love of CCTV and yet crimes still go unpunished and people don't get caught.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#223

Post by darkteflon »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #212
justinmcp wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cries of "Tyranny!" and "Give me liberty or give me death" are imported concepts that don't resonate quite as well here in Australia. Maybe literally with those sayings, but up until sometime in the 80s, "its a free country" was a common refrain, which was rooted in the culture and expectations of the people. Something changed though.

Huh! Amazing! That’s something we used to say as children to each other at school. I’m now 40 amd don’t recall the last time I heard anyone say that.

Me too - 42 and can’t recall the last time I heard someone say that. Very interesting observation from GP.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#224

Post by shadilay »

chroem- wrote: post #60
ceejayoz wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have fewer than 10 deaths per state combined with very high vaccination rates. From the outside looking in, it seems wholly unjustified. “That car is running really well. Why don’t we dismantle the engine?”

Excellent: you have achieved orders of magnitude fewer deaths than the annual cold and flu season. But at what cost? You have also surrendered your entire society to an enforcement apparatus that looks like it was taken straight out of a work of mid 20th century dystopian fiction.

At some point you have to ask what society you're sacrificing to protect.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#225

Post by caf »

0xy wrote: post #204
caf wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't a "bipartisan bill". The Opposition had zero input - they moved amendments that were rejected by the Government. I've explained how the LNP is responsible for it - it was their bill, written by them and passed through a process they control. Make no mistake, they had the numbers to pass it regardless of what the Opposition did on the floor. The Opposition's vote either way was merely symbolic - and frankly…

In regards to metadata retention, the shadow Comms Minister at the time outright said Labor had no plans to amend or repeal the legislation if elected. I don't buy this "they're secretly anti-surveillance!" line. They are complicit. It's also puzzling how you imply that amending these bills would fix them. As if one more check and balance would make them not a horrific disaster. In fact, Labor's "amendments" to "fix"…

The ALP were in government for 6 years between 2007 and 2013. What bills like this did they pass when they were in charge?

I don't imply that "amending the bills would fix them". I am pointing out that the Government rejected all other input on these bills, so they cannot be meaningfully described as "bipartisan".

Implying they should trash fundamental principles by voting for this stuff just to cling to power is pretty weak.

I imply nothing of the sort.

"Cling to power"? What power?

I am stating that voting against a Government bill that has the numbers to pass anyway is a quixotic action, and in this case probably both a strategically poor option.

You know what's a fundamental principle? The principle that you get the laws that the Government you vote in wants to make. The Opposition can't save you from the Government you voted for.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#226

Post by shadilay »

6nf wrote: post #194
selcuka wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole calculation is wrong, but even if it was correct, I would still be amazed by the fact that you think $4m is too much to get one person live for a few more years.

This is only one year, we're gonna keep spending money on the covid response as long as there's lockdowns. We do not have unlimited money and there's better ways to increase lifespan for less than $4M per person per year

Length of life is such a horrible metric. What about quality of life?

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#227

Post by jamil7 »

gonzo41 wrote: post #115
stephen_g wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re the main ones pushing all these laws in. I am disgusted at Labor for their part but the core responsibility is 100% with the current Government. Just look at what’s happening now - in the last few days - Morrison and Joyce claimed they’re going to bring a bill to outlaw anonymous posting on social media sites - for the sole reason that some people were talking about a rumour that the just departed NSW deputy…

I really want them to try this. I think it'd be fun for Facebook to geoblock all of Australia.

Wouldn't Facebook love this?

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#228

Post by adventured »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #219

Well, we know that mass surveillance has been installed in the USA, we have detailed proof of it, and this hasn't change a thing. They are still under mass surveillance. And people are still carrying trackers in their pocker. They put cameras in the front door bell, always online microphones with speech analysis in their living room, give all their life records, textual or in images, to giants companies that have dem…

While it's definitely true that humanity is complacent overall (clearly), there are some very important differences between the US and Australia.

Australia has actually moved on ending secure encryption for example. That's not yet the case in the US and it's questionable whether the authorities will be able to (they already would have, if they could have), overcoming the significant constitutional hurdles.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#229

Post by tediousdemise »

I've seen it mentioned somewhere that Australia is essentially the Western, English-speaking countries' testing ground for privacy and freedom-eroding legislation. If the laws are deemed a "success" by the ruling class, they are exported to the other Western countries.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#230

Post by BiteCode_dev »

adventured wrote: post #228
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #219

Well, we know that mass surveillance has been installed in the USA, we have detailed proof of it, and this hasn't change a thing. They are still under mass surveillance. And people are still carrying trackers in their pocker. They put cameras in the front door bell, always online microphones with speech analysis in their living room, give all their life records, textual or in images, to giants companies that have dem…

While it's definitely true that humanity is complacent overall (clearly), there are some very important differences between the US and Australia. Australia has actually moved on ending secure encryption for example. That's not yet the case in the US and it's questionable whether the authorities will be able to (they already would have, if they could have), overcoming the significant constitutional hurdles.

There is no need to end encryption in the USA, because the way they collect the data works around the problem entirely.

With secret subpoenas, gag orders and programs like PRISM, they get what they need directly from the source. Either from the services hosting the data, or the devices producing/receiving the data.

The data is never collected while in transit, when it's encrypted. They got the keys for the servers, and back-doors to our devices. They don't care about encryption at all.

Once again, freedom is not a technical problem:

https://xkcd.com/538/

Post reply on HN