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Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

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Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#101

Post by stephen_g »

ImTheMaddest wrote: post #33
stephen_g wrote: post #14

It’s a fairly complex situation. Most people just don’t realise all the encroaching police state laws even exist (I refer to the real ones Federally, not the temporary State-Government health orders that some people have tried to blow out of proportion). We have very little media diversity. The few billionaires who own the few outlets enjoy the continuing tax cuts, random free grants, advertising spend, etc. from the…

We can't blame the LNP for all of this. All of the surveillance related bills passed in the last 10 years have been bipartisan. I'd also go as far as to say this is what Australians want. Many people believe these laws won't be used against regular citizens and will assist in law enforcement efforts.

They’re the main ones pushing all these laws in. I am disgusted at Labor for their part but the core responsibility is 100% with the current Government.

Just look at what’s happening now - in the last few days - Morrison and Joyce claimed they’re going to bring a bill to outlaw anonymous posting on social media sites - for the sole reason that some people were talking about a rumour that the just departed NSW deputy Premier was allegedly having an affair with Joyce’s daughter… That’s just an insane basis for legislation!

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#102

Post by caf »

stephen_g wrote: post #42
hresvelgr wrote: post #21

To anyone not from Australia or not across this, currently federal law enforcement can hack online accounts, remove, add, or modify data. They still need a warrant but can hack accounts in advance of a warrant, provided they have "reasonable suspicion" that the person they are hacking is committing a crime. There is also no recourse if the warrant is denied and they have already hacked the accounts of the person in s…

Be careful - they’ve redefined ‘warrant’. For some of the hacking, they no longer need a warrant from a judge, but can get a “warrant” from the Administrative Appeals Tribunal (a body which concerns have been raised about it having been fairly heavily stacked with failed Liberal party candidates, Liberal party ex-staffers, etc. with no legal training or experience). There is even some provision for being able to decl…

Yes, the AAT is what would be described as "regime officials" by the nightly news when it is reporting on a foreign country.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#103

Post by BuyMyBitcoins »

hresvelgr wrote: post #21

To anyone not from Australia or not across this, currently federal law enforcement can hack online accounts, remove, add, or modify data. They still need a warrant but can hack accounts in advance of a warrant, provided they have "reasonable suspicion" that the person they are hacking is committing a crime. There is also no recourse if the warrant is denied and they have already hacked the accounts of the person in s…

Really makes you wonder what the end-goal actually is for these craven politicians.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#104

Post by baazaa »

chroem- wrote: post #3

It's been an odd experience having a few Australian HN posters attempt to rationalize to me why their police are justified in shooting people who leave their homes with rubber bullets, and why it's normal to be required to take surveillance photos of themselves in their own residences. I guess strict authoritarianism must be accompanied with equally strict media propaganda.

People are too quick to blame the media. Whatever you want to say about Murdoch, he's not a huge fan of perpetual lockdowns and so forth, and he owns half our media.

The problem in Australia is not the media or the politicians, it's the actual electorate. Ordinary Australians pine for despotism. Unfortunately the general public are the last group outsiders think to blame, so there's this real mismatch between their theories of what's happening in Australia versus the on-the-ground reality.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#105

Post by bpodgursky »

ryandrake wrote: post #85
taitems wrote: post #64

Cries of "Tyranny!" and "Give me liberty or give me death" are imported concepts that don't resonate quite as well here in Australia. The pearl clutching "Save Australia" protests were good for a chuckle[1], but are also accompanied by people advocating we rise up and murder our police[2]? When Florida has 50x the per capita death rate than that of Australia, it's pretty clear that the US chose liberty AND death[3].…

The words “tyranny” and “authoritarian” have become so overused since 2020 it’s almost comical. All over the English speaking world, not just Australia. Every little thing an authority does that someone doesn’t like is now called tyranny. Masks are tyranny. Vaccines are tyranny. Kicking a jerk out of your store is tyranny. The word has been watered down and exaggerated to the point of meaninglessness. After the boy c…

Quoth the frog, enjoying his warm bath.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#106

Post by chroem- »

ceejayoz wrote: post #63
chroem- wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent: you have achieved orders of magnitude fewer deaths than the annual cold and flu season. But at what cost? You have also surrendered your entire society to an enforcement apparatus that looks like it was taken straight out of a work of mid 20th century dystopian fiction.

My grandma's in Tasmania. Hasn't needed to wear a mask the entire time. My uncle has worn a mask for a couple of days total. My American-born kids are going to school in KN95 masks and spent most of last year doing temperature checks and health screenings. One of these looks like "a work of mid 20th century dystopian fiction", certainly.

> My grandma's in Tasmania. Hasn't needed to wear a mask the entire time. My uncle has worn a mask for a couple of days total.

Now have them attempt that on the mainland. They'll be liable to have their bones broken by the police response.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#108

Post by rajup »

taitems wrote: post #64

Cries of "Tyranny!" and "Give me liberty or give me death" are imported concepts that don't resonate quite as well here in Australia. The pearl clutching "Save Australia" protests were good for a chuckle[1], but are also accompanied by people advocating we rise up and murder our police[2]? When Florida has 50x the per capita death rate than that of Australia, it's pretty clear that the US chose liberty AND death[3].…

No thread on surveillance and privacy is complete without this clichéd quote, might as well be me:

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Ben Franklin

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#109

Post by paranoidrobot »

TapWaterBandit wrote: post #87
ntSean wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> police are justified in shooting people who leave their homes with rubber bullets This is not true at all. As an Australian who has been following protests closely and the police response, they are clearly only shooting rubber bullets at those who are: - Throwing glass bottles at police - Attacking "fake news" journalists - Damaging buildings and monuments. Black Lives Matter protests peacefully marched through the…

Police going door to door in NSW/VIC investigating protestors against lockdowns months after they have occurred. I assume you will support similar surveillance of BLM protestors? NSW: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/09/23/australia... VIC: https://twitter.com/sullydish/status/1447314509949984768

The NSW one it's not clear from the context whether that person was at a protest.

The second one it's pretty clear they were.

I don't know which protests they were, but a number of anti-lockdown/vaccine protests were violent, which is likely the reason the police were investigating. That it's months later is almost certainly because police have been going through a shitload of leads.

The same thing is happening in the US where people suspected of participating in the January 6 riots are/were being investigated months after events.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#110

Post by grassmudhorse »

hresvelgr wrote: post #21

To anyone not from Australia or not across this, currently federal law enforcement can hack online accounts, remove, add, or modify data. They still need a warrant but can hack accounts in advance of a warrant, provided they have "reasonable suspicion" that the person they are hacking is committing a crime. There is also no recourse if the warrant is denied and they have already hacked the accounts of the person in s…

> currently federal law enforcement can hack online accounts, remove, add, or modify data

Terrifying -- we are trusting officers who are incentivised to make convictions with the power to remove, add and modify data which could be used as evidence in determining the outcome of criminal cases.

Would love for someone to tell me that I am missing something here that makes this acceptable.

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